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Sambucus Sutherland's Gold cuttings

Discussion in 'General Gardening Discussion' started by silu, Oct 4, 2012.

  1. silu
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    silu gardening easy...hmmm

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    I have an ancient Sambucus Sutherland's gold which I reckon is about 50 years old. It certainly has tree like trunk/s. I am very fond of it as we can get late frosts/high winds and this "poor man's Acer" seems to stand up better than the various Acers I have. A couple of years ago I bought a Sambucus Black Lace and took cuttings of it just in case it didn't make it through it's 1st winter here...did.Easily got about 5 cuttings off The Black Lace with the good old poly bag over the pot method. Last year I decided I must get round to take cuttings of the Sutherland's Gold as I have no idea how much longer it will keep going. WELL started this carry on last Autumn with hardwood cuttings..success ZERO. Then started taking cutting this year about May time right through to August...success ZERO. I've tried all sorts of different cuttings, nodal, internodal, scarred, with heal of old wood you name it with all leaves present with some, none, with rooting compound and without.Size varying from about 1 inch to 2 ft in desperation!Tried various growing mediums from pure sand to pure peat, not a jot of difference. Can only think this variety needs bottom heat maybe. While no genius gardener I usually manage to get cuttings to strike unless they are notoriously difficult and best left to the experts to tackle.Really puzzled as to why The Black Lace was easy and The Sutherland's gold isn't. Hope someone can help. I dislike paying Garden centre prices unless a plant is nigh on impossible to propagate for an amateur with no fancy equipment.
  2. Kristen
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    Kristen Under gardener

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    I have had a lot of difficulty getting Black Lace to strike - I've managed about 10% in previous years ...

    ... this year I took some in early September and they look to have taken (Black Beauty too). Maybe its a timing thing ... they had just the right amount of warmth to root I reckon ... an older plant may be more critical on that point.

    Did Sambucus Sutherland's Gold exist 50 years ago? (its not in my "Hilliers" from '71, I can't find my Notcutts catalogue from mid '70s) and not sure they live that long?

    Personally I think Sutherland's Gold and / or Flamingo are not robust / vigorous varieties - nurserymen (when I have quizzed them) tell me otherwise. Whatever! I have struggled to get them to grow well here.

    However, 45 years ago :) I grew Sambucus racemosa plumosa aurea. That was definitely robust and vigorous, but is now harder to find ...

    ... so if it happens that yours is older than when Sutherland's Gold was created, and it might be Sambucus racemosa plumosa aurea, then can I have a rooted cutting when you've worked out how to strike them please? :heehee: because I think the new fangled varieties are a poor imitation
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  3. silu
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    silu gardening easy...hmmm

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    Hmm well maybe it is Sambucus racemosa plumosa. Pretty sure it will have been planted here in the early 70s, so at least 40 years old and I've personally never seen a Sambucus with such a stout trunk/trunks). Looks like my success with Black Lace was pure luck! The Sambucus looks a little as though it might be coming towards the end of it's life (boo hoo) as it isn't as vigorous as it was about 10 years ago when I moved here and some of the very stout stems are now dead and I had to saw them down. Despite being hard pruned back to previous year's growth every year since I've been here it's still a good 15 odd ft atm. Well I'll keep trying and should I have any success, rooted cutting mk11 has your name on it Kristen! When looking to maybe have to buy another if no success I did note that the yellow leafed varieties appeared more expensive than the likes of Black Lace/Beauty, so maybe they are trickier to strike.Agree "new fangled"! aren't that clever. Always surprises me how few people grow Sambucus when usually so reliable, more vigorous and WAY less expensive than Acers which can be ruined for a whole season if there are strong winds when Acers start to come into leaf. I'll keep trying Kristen but don't hold your breath:)
    Last edited: Oct 5, 2012
  4. Madahhlia
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    Madahhlia Total Gardener

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    My favourite tree is Elder, black, yellow, green, whatever, I love them. I love the rank smell they have!
    I have had no trouble striking Black Beauty or that variegated one, but have failed totally with the yellow ones.
  5. Kristen
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    Kristen Under gardener

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    The black ones are S. nigra, the gold are S. racemosa - I wonder if that is part of the issue? (Propagation effectiveness not the same?)
  6. Bilbo675
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    Bilbo675 Total Gardener

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    Apart from Sambucus nigra 'Aurea' of course ;):biggrin:, which looks quite nice too;

    bp15.jpg
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  7. Kristen
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    Kristen Under gardener

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    Of course. :heehee:

    Who thought up all these names? "Nigra" is "black/dark" right? or was all those year learning Latin wasted ... actually, maybe it is "atro" that is Dark, as in "atropurpurea" ... oh I don't know ... I'll go and Google it.

    OK, I've been to visit Mr Google:

    "A tree or shrub that uses nigrum in the species has a feature that is black. Other forms are niger and nigra. Nigratus, nigrata, nigratum, nigrescens and nigricans all mean "blackish"."

    http://treesandshrubs.about.com/od/botanicallatinmeaning/g/Nigrum.htm
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    Last edited: Oct 5, 2012
  8. Bilbo675
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    Bilbo675 Total Gardener

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    The plot thickens :heehee::scratch::snork:
  9. Kristen
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    Kristen Under gardener

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    "Gold" is the new Black (or to be more erudite, in Latin, Aurea is the new Nigra !!!!
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    Last edited: Oct 5, 2012
  10. Verdun
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    Verdun Gardener

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    Sutherlands gold is a relatively recent Introduction. I find it easy to root....take hardwood now, some. 6" to 9" long and insert into the ground. Cuttings in the spring into pots of compost with added perlite. Black lace is propagated same way and just as easily....in my experience
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