I didn't here Obama's speech, just the headlines. I'll look it up tomorrow, but needless to say, if he's making subtle threats, then I'llbe less than impressed. Not that he'll know or care of course, but it would make me even more inclined to vote out. Has he missed the point? We're thinking of voting out because we don't like some unelected foreign third partydictating, so he as a foreign third party he tries to dictate ? ?
Do we even need 'the special relationship'? Sure, if Russia or China picks a fight, we will need their fire power. But they need us as much as we need them. The US has never won a war without Britain. They are like the bull in theChina shop, but they need us for skill and precision. Otherwise they wouldn't bother to invite us toall their wars.
At that time, the American people were tan skinned natives. There were British colonists who revolted against their own home nation. Some might say, British rebels repelled British officials. So in a very real sense, the "american" people, as per the modern term, didn't exist then. British rebels declared themselves "american" as part of their revolt. They repelled British officials because it was simply too costly for Britain to care, given that at the time, it would take several months to move reinforcements to America and the Dutch and French had already laid claim to America by then also. The controversial "right to bare arms" thing is actually testament to what happened. The fuller article describes bearing arms in case the British return. So, the "americans" ie the people of the US have never won a war without Britain, because the only war they won was one where they were in fact still the British.
I suppose that I could be rather picky here There were over 30 wars against American Indian tribes, covering over 100 years. The Barbary wars in the early 1800's against the Ottomans, Morocco and Algeria The War of 1812 against us, resulting in a draw (Treaty of Ghent) The Mexican - American War, for the Independence of Texas and California American Civil War Spanish - American War (Treaty of Paris), After which they went straight on to fight the Philippine - American War The Border War, they were involved in fighting the Mexicans as part of the Mexican Revolution (remember Pancho Villa who was reported to have said, as he was dying, "Don't let it end like this, tell them I said something" ) The Banana Wars against various Caribbean islands (between 1912 and 1934)
I'm not sure that he is making threats as he won't be in office when all this pans out if we vote for out. I think that he is just telling us how it is. Trade wise we're just not that important to the US. So if there is a Brexit it could be enough to tip the world economy into recession (the UK is not that important, the Euro is and any disruption in the Euro zone would be the catalyst. Most avalanches begin with a small slippage of snow) and in that event the Euro countries will act in their own best interests as will the US. So the US will negotiate with the more lucrative market first (the EU) and observe any conditions lain out in that including ostracising the UK if that is called for. Now this is not fact, it is conjecture but that is the nature of this whole debate.
If we vote out, the eu will cease to be the entity it is now. Third biggest net contributer leaves, what happens to the books? Plus there is growing contempt for the eu in other member states. I believe the Dutch are close to calling it a day for one, and the French equivalent of ukip has been gaining ground for some time now, with a massive rise in popularity recently, after the ordinary French people realised how farcical eu security is after it transpired that some actual terrorists were processed as refugees in Greece while others had been living undisturbed for quite some time in neighbouring Belgium.
there is a belief that voting out would stop terrorists and migrants, but I fear that, sadly, that would not be the case...
That's true for the UK because we're not part of shengen. If other eu countries are thinking of leaving though, it would mean they could take back control of their borders. For us, it would make no difference, as we already check passports for people coming in, and can deny non-eu citizens. The only way it would make a difference is if we were going to stop genuine people from coming in, but that would be silly.
But, even with Shengen we can't deny entry to EU members without a good reason. Not having a job or anywhere to live is not considered good reason.
True, but as we've so tragically seen, different eu countries take different approaches to checking papers of people coming in. I seem to recall that something like 17 people had the same fake passport when registered in Greece and allowed to continue on their way, one of whom then went onto to slaughter a load of innocent French people. Without shengen, every country they passed through would have done their own checks, so there'd be a greater chance that they'd have been detained before getting the chance to commit mass murder.
And there lies one of the big problems with the EU . Anyone remember the US reaction to Concorde, they scuppered it mostly from the start, basically because their SST as they called it, didn't make the grade, so they set about a world campaign to get it banned due to sonic booms. Eventually they gave a bit, and let it come into Washington and New York. It never became commercially viable because of those protests in America. I think Obama's threat that we would be at the back of the queue regarding trade is a bit stupid, surely you trade with someone who is making what you want, if they dont, you dont trade with them. As to security cant think it would change much, in or out, no country is going to stop sharing, info. I assume we share info with friendly non EU countries already, and they do with us. NATO is different and nothing to do with the EU I believe.
