UK and the EU

Discussion in 'Off-Topic Discussion' started by clanless, Nov 9, 2015.

  1. longk

    longk Total Gardener

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    You ain't lived until you've flown Garuda Airlines :yikes:
     
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    • shiney

      shiney President, Grumpy Old Men's Club Staff Member

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      Just to set the record right. :noidea: The European Court of Human Rights comes under the Council of Europe and has nothing directly to do with the EU. It has 47 member countries. We can withdraw from it at any time or opt to remain but with no relevance to the EU.
       
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      • Ariadae

        Ariadae Super Gardener

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        In, we know what we've got, and we know it needs improving and how to do it. Ie stop standing on the sidelines and moaning, get properly involved and make a proper contribution.

        Out, no guarantees just politicians promises of a rosy future. What are they worth? Who is foolish enough to believe them? Are they worth the gamble?
         
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        • shiney

          shiney President, Grumpy Old Men's Club Staff Member

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          We don't know how to do it because they don't take any notice of us. :sad:

          Tried that and got nowhere.

          Absolutely nothing.

          Some will be!

          :dunno:

          Sitting on this fence is getting even more uncomfortable! :snork:
           
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          • "M"

            "M" Total Gardener

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            The cynic in me is more concerned that it will be a "when", not an "if" ;)
             
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            • longk

              longk Total Gardener

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              Never in this day and age. Europe is a collection of relatively advanced societies with ready access to communications and media. Any attempt at dictatorship would not get across the start line. However............................

              The harsh fact is that more and more legislation is inevitable as the world gets smaller and trade (especially on on a personal level) ceases to be contained by borders.
               
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              • Scrungee

                Scrungee Well known for it

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                In, no guarantees just politicians promises of a rosy future. What are they worth? Who is foolish enough to believe them? Are they worth the gamble?
                 
              • shiney

                shiney President, Grumpy Old Men's Club Staff Member

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                Dictatorship doesn't need to be the old definition of it. The newer version is 'more and more restrictions and rules'.
                 
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                • "M"

                  "M" Total Gardener

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                  @Anthony Rogers - you disagree I'm a cynic? Aww, thank you! :heehee:
                   
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                  • "M"

                    "M" Total Gardener

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                    But dictatorships still exist and IS draws recruits from the collection of relatively advanced societies you mention and utilises the ready access to comms and media to do so. So doesn't that mean it already does happen in this day and age? :scratch:
                     
                  • Scrungee

                    Scrungee Well known for it

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                    There's also the 'tyranny of the majority' to consider.
                     
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                    • Sian in Belgium

                      Sian in Belgium Total Gardener

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                      ....and the slightly longer answer is "yes and no".

                      If you earn in a country more than the tax allowance of that country, you pay tax in that country. So for a while, whilst registered as living in Belgium, as Belgian employees, and paying Belgian taxes, we had to also pay UK income tax on our rental earnings on our home in the UK. Our tenants thought this unfair, so they stopped paying their rent....
                       
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                        Last edited: Apr 27, 2016
                      • clueless1

                        clueless1 member... yep, that's what I am:)

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                        I half agree.

                        On one hand though, while we keep hearing that the world has changed, we keep seeing whole regions go pear shaped very suddenly. Perhaps most recently Russia vs Ukraine, or the obvious increase in Chinese imperialism.

                        On the other hand, the world very much is changing in the sense that nations are no longer self contained little units. Even this discussion on this forum includes people in several different countries. If we are not going to be isolated, we have to find common ground.

                        I think the biggest problem is nobody knows how to make it work.
                         
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                        • longk

                          longk Total Gardener

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                          Much as I love ya here goes..................

                          Yes they do exist. But they are largely in countries that are developing, been under dictatorship for decades, countries with low levels of education or as a result of civil war. They also rely on internet censorship (ie; China, Turkey, North Korea etc.). If you want to look for a dictatorship in the EU look to the huge corporations that control the markets and our politicians.
                          IS does recruit from the UK and the EU. But a threat? The numbers involved here add up to about 0.001% of the total UK population. IS only has any real opportunity in war hit areas. It's efforts to get a foothold in Pakistan are a little worrying but I would expect that it is very high or at the top of the major focus points of the worlds intelligence community.
                           
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                          • longk

                            longk Total Gardener

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                            And I half agree with that. The Middle East has been a mess since Great Britain, France and Russia divided it up amongst themselves before the end of WW1 in anticipation of the defeat of the Ottoman Empire.
                            The decolonization of Africa was pretty much one of Roosevelts terms for the US entering the war. I do wonder how different things might have been if we had taken longer over dismantling the "Empire" and prepared the native peoples better for democracy with education and better infrastructure.
                             
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