My point is that "averages" mean nothing in real life, Anthony. The decision taken in the referendum has to be done on real facts not averages. As we know there is Tsunami of "facts and figures" from all interested parties and to be honest probably just as "meaningful" as averages. No one organisation or source of information is independent in this referendum so it all has to be treated the same.
Exactly. For example, if that £2.15 per person per week was literal, then in our household that would be £10.60 per week, or over £40 per month. A big ask in a household with only one bread winner. However, my salary is average at best. And assuming our contribution is proportional to our earnings, like income tax, then I'm going to assume that those at the very top of the pecking order, earning 8 or 9 figure salaries, pay more than £2.15, while I probably pay less. Either way, that particular figure is in my opinion completely irrelevant, because I'd be willing to bet my last fiver that if we leave the eu, the government won't reduce my monthly income tax bill by £40 or so.
Oh no,, seems if we leave, World War Three will start. Cameroon, really is scratching around. Got a feeling the "in" brigade are in danger of over doing it just a tad. Are we really that important, if we are, why dont they take any notice of us, anyway, I'm sure Germany and France would be able to handle it. Even that twit Boris is starting to make sense, not sure if that is good or bad.
Cameron has a point, but not for the reasons he gave. The eu has members that are still quite oriented towards the former soviet union as well as other loyalties. They are stable because they get free money out of the eu. If we leave, then the eu will start tocollapse. Not because wwe're so important (although we are, as second or third biggest net contributer), but because others are already looking to follow suit, and one leaving is likely to open the flood gates. So will those inherently unstable members remain peaceful if their source of free money starts to fall apart? What if Putin offers bigger financial bribes than the diminished eu can? He's already tried it with Greece. What happens if Putin offers a deal to a particular eastern european member, and about half the people want to take it while the other half want to stay loyal to the eu?
I see the point @clueless1 and must admit it was at the back of my mind, but it does seem to be a rubbish reason to stay in from our point of view. So we have to stay chained to a system that bleeds us dry, just so eastern Europe doesn't go back to how it was a few years ago. Maybe just me, but there does seem to have been lots of problems since the USSR broke up. Mostly affecting us, and immigration/migrant workers etc.
What has me worried about appears to be Cameron's inference from us leaving the EU is that the whole system is so fragile that it will fall apart without us. That seems to be the opposite of what Cameron and all the 'In' crowd keep saying about us. They keep saying that we're too insignificant for the EU to want to deal with us. After all, were only a small part of the 508 million population in the EU, so we don't have any influence.
I'm puzzled. In what way does it bleed us dry? The peanuts that it does cost us (relatively speaking) will be swallowed up many times over by the ensuing recession, even more massive pension deficit when we stop all those "foreigners" coming over to help plug it, cut throat employment practices etc. My opinion but I don't think that I'm too far off the mark. A recession is coming and I firmly believe that the French, German and Italians have a plan in place ready for a Brexit and that it will involve tariffs. War breaking out? What a load of small balls! It is that sort of idiotic soundbite that turns us against our "ruling classes". Why can't they just say that "we're not sure what will happen exactly but this is our gut feeling" and be done with it. Why ramp everything up to the point that it reads like the world revolves around us? It doesn't! They need to get over it.
Not another recession, were still trying to get out of this one. And how long do you think we can sustain bringing migrants over here to plug the pension gap? I dont doubt our "friends" on the other side of the channel have plans to sting us, should we vote to leave. Its just down to whether or not it's in their interests to do that? But they are sure what will happen, its "a jump in the dark", but then go on to tell us all this?
I think the recession argument would carry more weight if the eurozone hadn't fallen to literally breaking point, to the extent that several nations needed, and some still need, bailing out to prevent bankruptcy. All while Britain didn't get that far, and as a result of us all suffering the effects of 'austerity' so that Britain didn't suffer the same fate as the eurozone, the dictators in Brussels demanded extra money from us because we'd done alright. At the moment, I'm really still torn as to which way to vote, but I can't see how anyone could still be convinced by the recession threat given everything that's happened in the last decade.
The harsh fact is that we can't afford not to. But wait, it gets worse. There is a looming crisis in care for the dependent elderly as more care homes now find it cheaper to have empty beds than to fill them with residents who are paid for by the local authority. Yup! I guess that the truth just doesn't offer the great soundbite that their overpaid PR gurus are looking for though.
It won't be a little one though. For the two years that we spend trying to negotiate the terms of our exit the UK will become a toxic zone for outside investment and our economy is just too weak to carry that burden.Cash pots will haemorrhage out of UK banks, finance will get as rare as rocking horse doo doo and property values will tumble. 2008 will look like the warm up act compared to the headline act which this one could be.
Wasn't the opposite of that the main cause of the previous recession? Soaring property prices combined with the inability to pay for it - with the banks allowing too much funding and governments not putting the breaks on the banks. A bit too simplified
I remember several friends all telling me that I have to buy a house asap because the prices are rising rapidly and will never come back down. I remember on one instance replying with the analogy that if it became £100 for a bag of chips, I wouldn't buy some, even if that was the going rate. All my friends thought I was crazy. Then trouble eventually brewed, and I was facing redundancy around the same time, so I carefully orchestrated my own selection, got a nice payoff, and used as as a deposit for a repossessed property that was at the time on the market for one third of the price it had sold for just a few years earlier in the middle of the property boom. Now I'm paying less than half the mortgage that many of my friends, with smaller houses are paying.
Yes, it needs some common sense coupled with not following the herd. One of my managers wanted to get onto the house market when they were at their peak. He said that if he waited he wouldn't be able to afford one. I could understand that worry but I told him that they couldn't sustain the prices like that. So, what did he do? He bought a house and three months later the value dropped by 20%. He blamed me for not arguing strongly enough with him.
Not really over simplified at all. Basically the western world was largely living on credit of one form or another. Historically recessions begin either with a banking crisis or with a lack of confidence/success/money in the stocks and commodities markets. The last one was the former which in all fairness we have never really recovered from. Market confidence is what has stopped a strong recovery and will cause the next recession. In the event of a Brexit the effect of that lack of confidence will be far greater.
