Sorry Clueless, Greece's financial destruction was nothing to do with the Eurozone, it would have gone either in or out. It was down to poor Government and the fact that paying income tax was done on a voluntary basis. Also, where's all the billions gone that tourists spend there each year.... Lining peoples pockets that's where. Can you imagine what would happen if that happened over here. You wouldn't be able to blame the Eurozone as we're not in it.
I'm not going to quote any of the many sources, because I don't want to be seen as quoting a biased source. But it's all there. If you Google something like most outvoted members of eu. It seems official eu figures seem to show that Britain is officially the biggest loser when it comes to steering the eu.
When the German car industry wanted to pull the plug on Greece, Merkel herself promised them that the government would underwrite the credit if they continued to sell to Greece on the never never. Why should they do that? How could it not contribute to Greece's financial demise? Greece has many faults and Germany can not take all the blame by any means, but Germany certainly took advantage of Greece and knowingly weakened it. Also, do you not think it's slightly hypocritical that the country that was most harsh with Greece when it needed financial aid, was the country that was allowed to pay about a fiver for war reparations?
This is quite interesting... http://ukandeu.ac.uk/explainers/does-the-uk-win-or-lose-in-the-council-of-ministers/
Argh! I had a conversation today with someone at work & what did they say "I'm voting out because the immigrants are taking all of our reasources" They are NOT taking ALL of our reasources, they are taking 'SOME' of our reasources, yes it's putting pressure on our reasources, yes I get cross when I sit in the doctors surgery & everyone is talking in foreign languages BUT look at the bigger picture, I've said it before & I will no doubt say it again! It drives me mad how some people are so flipping narrow minded! I asked the person at work what he thought would happen if I removed all the foreigners from the uk tomorrow, his reply 'well...we would have more spaces available in schools & less pressure on the NHS' (he got the Beckie stare) I simply replied 'the NHS would be so short staffed it would struggle to manage (we have a lot of very good foreign doctors at the west Suffolk hospital) I couldn't really comment on the schooling situation as I know very little about it! But again this person has no real understanding he's just clutching at one thing he doesn't like & is making his decision on that! I'm not saying that I want this country over run with imigrants I'm just pointing out that in fact there's more to look at than just immigration & you can't make your decision on that. Rant over!
I'm totally puzzled. The opinions seem to be wide apart. I suspect the wild differences have a relationship to individual financial circumstances? Don't know. ... just an observation from the outside looking in...... hope this doesn't offend anyone....
Opinions on this are deeply polarised as you have noticed, and I would also agree to a point that individual financial circumstances has a bearing on things; I also think that a person's age has a part to play - - - those who are younger than I are more likely to be voting in (my opinion only), those around my age (40) are the most likely to be unsure/undecided and those who are more experienced are the most likely to want out.
I suspect the percentage of folk in the same situation is very high. It annoys me too. This is a massive issue. I'm voting out. But I've done my research. I've thought long and hard, and tried to see it from every angle. Yet I still worry that I might be wrong, and the consequences are infinitely bigger than choosing the wrong party in a general election. This is a very tough decision. I really wish I could be sure that at least half the electorate have actually given it some thought, whichever way they plan to vote. But alas, I suspect the vast majority will either play it safe and vote for what they believe is the status quo, because they've never known any different, or vote out because they don't like that a Muslim family has moved into their clique little neighbourhood. So I'd urge people. Whether in or out. Do what you genuinely and objectively believe is right. And please, please nobody based their decision on what the daily mail or express prints.
Naah, Lori, it's actually good to have someone outside the UK to give their thoughts on the problem/situation. So's the whole of the UK In my opinion, not really, Lori. It's more of a clash between resentment of being slowly entangled into a Federation of countries run by an organisation who's leaders and administration haven't been appointed by the people and those who believe that the EU is good for our economy and that leaving it would lead to disaster for the UK and the belief that the UK wouldn't be able to continue to trade with the EU.
I'd mostly agree. But I see another possibility. It's like working for a small company vs a massive company. In either, you may or may not like the boss. But in a big company, on the plus side, the company is probably going to thrive. But that might bexpect at your expense. Nobody gives a stuff about you. Your entire department might get dropped like a hot brick with no notice. In a small company, you can't hide. Everyone knows who you are and how good or useless you are. As an individual you are noticed, good or bad, and as a department you have influence. The company is small enough to adapt rapidly if it has to. But it still has all its customers, suppliers and partners.
Just a thought. Once we're 'out', we're out. Assuming an 'in' vote, if at some time in the future it's obvious that it ain't working, then at that point we could dump the EU. Just sayin'...
A good analogy, clueless, but taking it a bit further, the UK is not a proper member/employee of the "Company". We're more in the position of being viewed by the permanent "employees" and also the Boss [the EU] as having limited privileges and having the status of an rebellious Agency/Temporary worker.
Interesting observatios @fatcontroller. Demographics play a huge role in the way we live day to day but rarely affect the outcome of political decisions. This is a situation which is truly amazing to watch. NAFTA has just about killed our manufacturing. Particularly in the auto industry. We were worried about China and cheap goods. Hello Mexico. The only strong Union here is the one the government employees belong to. The votes are for their employers/current generous to them party and since "they got their's" the rest can hang. The government is The BIggest employer in this country .... I sincerely hope that whatever way the vote goes that no one is left deprived of their ability to care for their own. Heavy heavy heavy..
Well, I'm not sure that the Politicians would view it in that light, Freddy. If you're saying that once we're out, we're out, then the same would go for a In vote, if you're in, you're in If would be very hard to, politically, to change the result of the referendum in the future and actually back out. You'd need another referendum, going through the same wranglings, scaremongering, distortions of the "facts and figures" as we are now. One of the problems of referendums is that the party that loses the referendum, such as the SNP, will continue to campaign for another referendum until they get the answer they, and not the people, want which reduces the validity and point of a referendum.
