UK and the EU

Having just come back indoors and haven't read all of the recent posts but can tell you that you need 35years NI contributions to get a full state pension not 30 years as stated. I seem to remember having the same conversation before on here

As an aside because Mr Kandy couldn't afford to pay into a works pension for years due to us having a large mortgage,so he wasn't opted out and he is getting a good state pension whereas his cousins hubby that was in a well paid goverment job all his working life and got opted out receives less state pension because of it,but was still able to retire at 55 on a good goverment employers pension (Mr Kandy has had to wait until 65 to retire)

They haven't spoken to us for a month (There is nowt strange as folk)

 

Not sure if anyone has touched on this, but there has been lots of campaigning on how much we pay the EU each year, along with both sides disputing the amount, mainly due to the rebate which was negotiated by Maggie.

Well, I'm not well up on such things, but get the impression that the rebate has to be renegotiated every seven years, so its not likely to remain in existence for much longer, should we vote to stay in.

Also there appears to be some tinkering going on in Brussels, seems they have put off sorting out their budget until after the vote and also put off bringing in some legislation until after the vote.

 

With regards to the state pension threat, I fully expect that to have absolutely no impact on me or people my age or younger, even if it does affect anyone.

When I started in my career, retirement happened at 65. Then it became 66 I think, now 67 I think, and there's talk of raising it again. I fully expect that by 10 years from now the new pension age will be about 80. I also fully anticipate that it will be worth nothing in real terms anyway, and my generation's chances of claiming it will be close to nil. The NHS is already on its knees. As we get older we need it more often. I'm over weight and ex smoker. That in time will mean I got to the bottom of the list for any treatment I need, in the hope that I'll die before my appointment comes round, taking me out of the pension bill.

Sorry I know that seems very pessimistic, but I genuinely believe it will go something like that. I also believe that will happen regardless of whether we're in the eu or not.

 

I think I've been slightly misunderstood, but that's my fault for not being a bit more fulsome. Yes, we could always re-apply for membership, but that would be a long hard road, and there's no way imo we would be able to go back with the same terms we have now. Then there's the possibility we might be 'black balled'? So yes, we could go back, but I don't think it would ever happen, which is why I said "once we're out, we're out". For my part, I'll probably be voting to stay in, but that doesn't mean I'm happy with what we have, just lesser of the evils. The point was made that the EU is evolving into something we won't like. That may be true, but my view is that at the point it becomes unacceptable to carry on with it, we can pull out. Referendums are a bit of a pain, but easy to do.

 

I guess many of us doubt that another referendum will be held in our lifetime. The remain side seem to have pushed this point, which hasn't helped make their case.

I personally wish the whole thing hadn't been rushed. We were given a matter of months to attempt a renegotiation, and then for each side to prepare their case, and for each of us to do our research and thinking. Even a top figure for another eu member state pointed out that there was no way a proper negotiation could be done in such a short time.

 

I agree with everything you say. I suppose my fear is that the economy will go down the pan if we leave. I quite often see folks on the tv saying something like "we were fine before the eu, and we'll fine if we leave". Trouble is, the world is a lot different these days. I don't think we could compete when it comes to manufactured goods. Much is made of the importance of London being the financial hub of the world. Would that continue to be the case? My gut feeling is that it could well be a huge mistake to quit.

 

Hi Freddy
So, bearing that in mind when would be the best time to leave, surely we have kind of reached that point in some ways, or else we wouldn't be having a vote now.

The longer we stay in the harder it will be to leave, the whole point of the EU is to tie countries together and make going it alone as difficult as possible.
During the next few years I doubt we will be able to stop more and more integration taking place unless a few other countries start voicing the same opinion.
I'd like to think they will, but who knows.

Personally I would have left the EU 40rs ago, it would have been so much easier then.

 

Hiya Pete

I suppose we all have levels of tolerance. To me that level hasn't yet been reached. Sure, it does feel to me like the EU is overbearing at times, but on a day to day basis I don't pay it much mind. As I'm in the aircraft industry, leaving might well have a direct impact, not so much for me, but for those that aren't approaching retirement age. Let's say that the vote will be fairly evenly split, it wouldn't take much discontent for a sizeable majority to want to get out in the not too distant future.
It seems to me that there are two issues, the economy and immigration, and which is the most important issue to individuals will decide which way they vote. Yes, I know that that is a polarised and simplistic view which doesn't apply to everyone, but it's these views that will decide what happens in the vote, imo.

 

So because a bunch of specialists disagree with you it's a conspiracy? Maybe it's just that the consensus amongst professionals is that it will be a bad move economically.

If we vote out I will be leaving. I've worked too hard for my retirement pot to see it disappear - better to retire earlier and stretch it out a bit further.

Could be shades of '73 all over again.......................

Before we joined our economy had been in decline for a considerable period of time whilst the economies of the founding nations were faring far better.
(Percentage difference between the UK's GDP per capita and EU founding members' (EU6) and EU5 (excludes Luxembourg) between 1950 and 2011)................

We went into it as "the poor man of Europe".

Lest we forget it is not just huge corporations that have a pension black hole. Successive governments have been "turning a blind eye" to immigration in the hope that they won't contribute NI long enough to claim a state pension hopefully plugging a bit of the rather huge gap that the UK state has..

Or the most blindly optimistic investment ever?

 

It's not my specialist area, so what I'm about to say might not apply but here goes.

In any specialist area, there are sort of accepted principles. Most specialists in their field will not deviate far from those accepted principles because to do so is a massive gamble with their credibility. Sometimes you get someone who is willing to go against accepted principles. They are usually ridiculed even if proven right.

Then of course there's media bias. Even if unintentional it's inevitable. There are some serious business figures that have gone on record saying they want out. We're not talking one man bands. We're talking top people from huge businesses. People who are astute and savvy enough to build multi million pound empires from nothing. They get some coverage, but they are not the imf or the president of a powerful nation so they don't make the headlines.

 

Ain't statistics a wonderful thing?

 

Beckie76, You have just stated what most people think and it is incorrect.
Current immigrants will stay, and indeed if we are out and use a points system we will be able to adjust the points to the requirements at the time
NO ONE is saying all immigrants must go home, Just we will in future control who and what we want

People are saying that the Australian points system is creating MORE immigrants, correct for that is what they want, They award points for what they want
ie:- a joiner gets 12 points, a Cabinet maker gets 30 points, A first year nurse gets 12 points, a Staff nurse gets 28 points
They adjust the amount of points awarded to what they require, If Aus has too many Doctors then Doctors only get 10 points, and if they are short of nursing staff, Nurses get 20 points and so on

Yes we want immigrants of OUR choice at the time, we would prefer an English speaking consultant heart specialist, to A.N.Other non speaking Heart specialist, just now we can not even recruit Christian Barnard if we wanted to (apart from he died in 2001)

Jack McHammocklashing from the EU makes a cracking curry, but Asim from Madras does it better
There are hundreds of Jack McHammocklashing chefs but we want a real McKoy from India, currently we are NOT ALLOWED to do this

We just want control back

Regards Jack McH

 

Who invented and built the Hovercraft
Who invented and built the VTOL
Who designed and built the RR Engines in aircraft
Who makes the wings for current aircraft

I voted not to go in in the first place, but I lost, though it was not too bad, they just tried to do away with our LBS and OZs Yards feet and inches, gallons and pints, little by little
Now it is KILO GRAMS and Grams Metres Cm and Mm, Litres

Then the payments increased, now we are told what to do by some unelected people, we do not know whom and have not had the finances signed off for over seventeen years
Anyone at all from the 500 million can decide to move here to live, use our medical services and take work, require housed, require education facilities,

I vote for out, and I am happy to suffer several years Austerity, to get our freedom back, infact I will ditch the car and use a Hobby Horse cycle if need be

 

But who asked them? Fact is that there are so many quotes, reports and opinions being bandied around that we seem to forget that this is without precedent. It is all really just opinion - some of it better informed, some of it better thought through and some of it simply based on xenophobic ideals. For all of us our vote is nowt more than gut feeling.

Anyway, a question for everyone. If we were voting to join now which way would you be voting? Remind us if you're an innie or an outie in your answer.

As a confirmed innie I would actually say no to joining if that was the vote.