UK and the EU

Discussion in 'Off-Topic Discussion' started by clanless, Nov 9, 2015.

  1. jennywren

    jennywren Gardener

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    I'm a Scot with American citizenship who has lived in France for the past nine years. This is not a good year for my heid! I've voted to stay in the EU (why would I vote otherwise), I have to vote for Hillary come November :wallbanging:...and finally..as you may know France decided to rationalise the country's administration and as a result has joined together a number of regions - yesterday I learned the proposed new name for our region is "Nouvelle Aquitaine" - WOT! That is like combining Perthshire, Angus and The Kingdom of Fife and calling it "New Angus". Petitions are now flying through the ether...
     
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    • Anthony Rogers

      Anthony Rogers Guest

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      Hi Longk,

      I'm a confirmed innie as well.

      However, if it was a vote to join I think I would still vote to join as I think defensively we're better off. For example, would France still go into partnership with us as they are now.

      I would still vote no to entering the Eurozone though.
       
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      • shiney

        shiney President, Grumpy Old Men's Club Staff Member

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        One of the government departments put out a questionnaire. :noidea:

        If it was a vote on whether to join now, I would say 'No'.

        On the current issue I'm torn for a number of reasons. It depends on how personal I want to regard it. There are many things I'm still deciding on and they include:-

        Personal situation
        Extended family situation
        Local business
        Small business
        Large business
        Economic situation (many possibilities)
        Living conditions
        Health and welfare
        Immigration
        etc. etc. etc.
         
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        • clueless1

          clueless1 member... yep, that's what I am:)

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          It's impossible to answer without more context.

          The UK as it is today is partially shaped by our time so far in the eu. Had we never been in, the UK would be different. In that situation, I don't know which way I'd vote because I can't know what that would be like. People sometimes refer to life before the eu, but the whole world has changed a lot since those days.

          If you mean if the UK was as it is now, but we're not in the eu, would I vote to join it. Never in a million years. Would I vote to put out budget and defence in the hands of nations that we've been at war with in living memory? I know we're allies now and that's good. But would i vote to depend on them to side with us, a former enemy, against their former allies if the proverbial hit the fan? Would I vote to allow other nations to decide what works best for us, possibly at their own expense? I don't think I would.

          Would I vote to forge some kind of friendly alliance and trade deal with our European neighbours. Yes. But that's not what the eu is.
           
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          • shiney

            shiney President, Grumpy Old Men's Club Staff Member

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            I forgot to include the serious situation that's developing in the South China Sea. There has been a case still being decided by the United Nationsabout China who have started taking over islands in the SCS that are in International waters or waters owned by Vietnam, S. Korea, Indonesia, Malaysia etc. The International waters, and by request, the waters of those countries are being protected by the U.S.A. in co-operation with Japan and Taiwan and those countries.

            The other day China said, in no uncertain terms, that they don't care what the result is because they don't agree with the waters belonging to other countries. They claim them as historical right and they didn't agree when Nixon took control but couldn't argue about it because of not being strong enough militarily. They say that they are now strong enough and have plenty of nuclear armaments.

            Their spokesperson, who was very erudite, said that they will ignore any argument against them and will use force if necessary. He said that they are not the least bit intimidated by the U.S.A. and shall protect their borders vigorously. They have already built up strong military bases on some of the uninhabited islands in 'their' territory.

            Apart from expansionism and the desire to take back Taiwan it's quite likely that they're doing it so that they cn reap the benefit of the billions of barrels of oil under the SCS. This would boost their ailing economy. So we're back to oil again!
             
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            • clanless

              clanless Total Gardener

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              AKA 'Local Government Reorganisation' - a scandalous waste of billions of £'s of public money. Moving to and from smaller Councils (as they are more responsive to local needs) and to and from large Council's (as they can share resources and are cheaper to run).

              It's happening now in Wales - large County Councils - abolished for small District/Borough Council's - with talks now about going back to large County Councils.

              To confuse the 'plebs' its now called 'devolution' not 'Local Government Reorganisation'.
               
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              • Jack McHammocklashing

                Jack McHammocklashing Sludgemariner

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                Chinas take over of the Islands, they have converted most of them already to Airfields, or VERY LARGE STATIC AIRCRAFT CARRIERS
                 
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                • clueless1

                  clueless1 member... yep, that's what I am:)

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                  And while they're stealing territory, making clear threats to their neighbours as well as they wider world, we keep buying their rubbish, funding their very dubious activities.

                  Yet when a few pro Russian rebels objected to the violent overthrow, by eu fans, of the elected pm of Ukraine, we impose sanctions against Russia and launch a massive anti Russian propaganda initiative.
                   
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                  • longk

                    longk Total Gardener

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                    You're right, poorly worded. I did mean assuming that the UK had got where it is today without the help of the EU.
                     
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                    • pete

                      pete Growing a bit of this and a bit of that....

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                      Yeah but we are friends with them.
                      They are going to pay to build out nuclear power stations:yikes:
                       
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                      • ARMANDII

                        ARMANDII Low Flying Administrator Staff Member

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                        Naah, Pete, that's the Chinese:dunno::hate-shocked::snorky:
                         
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                        • Jiffy

                          Jiffy The Match is on Fire

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                          But didn't we upset the EU when we first started to build the Somerset one
                           
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                          • clueless1

                            clueless1 member... yep, that's what I am:)

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                            I hear the latest scare is a blatant direct blackmail attempt by Osborne.

                            He has said clearly and directly that if we vote leave, he is immediately going to do an emergency budget featuring tax rises and spending cuts.

                            The remain side will say he has to. But how can we vote in now? It would literally be like handing your dinner money to the bully. Our own government has said on many occasions when dealing with external threats that we never give in to such threats. Yet here they are now, in desperation, directly threatening the British people.

                            If I wasn't 100% sure before, I am now. I'm voting out.
                             
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                            • longk

                              longk Total Gardener

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                              How can a statement of fact be a threat? He will have no choice, money will be pulled out of the UK faster than we can find alternative investors. It is hard enough to find outside investment in times of recession let alone when a country is in a state of depression.

                              Interestingly, some of the Brexit side are now calling for a delay on invoking Article 50 until after an agreement is reached on the terms of exit. Yet article 50 has to be invoked for such talks to begin!
                               
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                              • clueless1

                                clueless1 member... yep, that's what I am:)

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                                Yet Nissan and Hitachi are keen on the northeast. China is keen on having a go at our newest nuclear power plants. India was keen on our steel until the Chinese destroyed it.

                                Besides. When was the last time Osborne was right about anything? The man has consistently failed to deliver on every commitment he's made. Yet now we're expected to believe him?
                                 

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