00000000000000000000000000015810 Hi Pete, Sorry, I can't do quotes but your last paragraph about people movement within the EU.......... What about the millions of Brits who have moved to other countries, should they be stopped from moving. What about the ones already abroad, what happens to them if we vote out ? EDIT...... So you're ok with all the immigrants coming to the UK from everywhere else in the World. It really annoys me that people want to stop members of the EU from travelling around Europe and the UK, but nothing is said about travellers from the test of the World. I remember when I lived in Marylebone, London, every other person was an unskilled Australian or New Zealander working in pubs, restaurants etc. Aren't they taking our jobs etc. Why is nothing being said about this ?
Is that true? I know some are economic migrants. Some are terrorists. That's why so many people, myself included, have been very tempted to vote out. But the truth is, I haven't seen any statistics on the situation. Just heresay. I don't know if genuine refugees make up 1% of the total, 99% or somewhere in between. I do however know that as far as the impact on eu nations is concerned, the UK is barely affected so far, whereas other countries are on their knees.
QUOTE="clanless, post: 1031678, member: 12738"]Still thinking of voting remain? Have a look at this article in the Telegraph: Petrol, electricity and airfares could be taxed under radical proposals being considered by Brussels Can't do a link as I've used up all my 'free' articles for this week. The meeting was 'postponed' until after the referendum...Brussels can impose taxes on the UK and there's nothing we can do about it.[/QUOTE] Hi Clanless,, Isn't this just another case of scaremongering...... I think the major words here are " could be " , not " will be ". Life is full of coulds, woulds, should'ves etc.
Anthony people have been living in other countries for years, and people from other countries have been living here for years. What is the big deal? Life goes on. Maybe things will change for them, but they will still be able to live in other countries, its not the end of the world. In fact it might just be the beginning of the "rest of the world" and a little less "Europe".
For me, it is not immigration that is the problem - it is the uncontrolled immigration that is the problem. If we had some way of limiting the numbers, that would help massively in my opinion. Currently, we have seen such an inrush that our infrastructure simply cannot cope, made worse by the fact that we have been trying to cope whilst in austerity. Personally, I couldn't give a monkeys where someone comes from, the colour of their skin, their religion, sexuality, size, shape or otherwise -- the simple truth is that this country (and probably many more in the EU) is not coping with the sheer numbers of people that have come and are coming in.
Hmm, the Turks hold the key to holding back the flood of people fleeing from Syria and the Syrian War/ISIS etc There's already been some "behind the scenes" deals with Turkey pushing for six month life visas for their citizens and basically trying to blackmail the EU, and the UK, into cash giveaways, trade deals and immigration access to Europe. You don't hear so much about it not from the Media and of course Cameron denying anything such could or will happen makes you suspect even more that it will.
Every time a new nation applies to join, every existing member, including Britain, must approve their application. If even one member says no, the application is denied. That means it's not really the eu that's imposed it on us, we, or more accurately our government, has allowed it. When a new member is approved, they don't automatically get total freedom of movement. They have to negotiate terms and timescales. Again it is the UK government that has made serious mistakes in the past on that note. At any point, the UK government could say, the eu is now big enough. No more. Will they do that? Probably not and that is a problem. But if we can't trust the government to get it right with eu backing, how can we trust them to get it right without? I actually like Boris Johnson. And he has some good ideas. There's no wonder he's winning a lot of support. But he's not in charge. It will be David Cameron and co that lead the country up to the next general election. By which time most exit negotiations would be about completed. Arguments like that we could introduce a points based immigration system are good and valid ideas. But they're just ideas. They need to be ideas supported by David Cameron before they have a chance of actually happening.
It is the eu that is bribing turkey. We are bribing them to post unaccompanied child refugees back into a war zone so that we can sleep at night safe in the knowledge that someone else is sorting the problem.
Actually, that's not quite accurate, Clueless. The Conservative Government has a majority that can be beaten more now in the House of Commons than ever before in this term of Parliament. Why??, because there are now more rebels in the Conservative party than ever before with a large proportion of his MP's unhappy with him and who would abstain or vote against him, and wanting to see him gone. He's also stated that he won't stand again for the role as Prime Minister so that position is up for grabs after the Referendum which either way it goes. But say, theoretically, that Cameron is in power should the Referendum be an OUT win. Then Cameron would be faced with a large number of victorious Conservative MP's who would make sure that he had very little say or influence in the negotiations. So things like the Australian points system would have the backing of the Conservative MP's and, I think, the majority of the British Public. So Cameron will be facing a very likely Leadership challenge, with what is already accepted as being a divided Tory Party, and knowing that rebel MP's will give him no mercy should he not negotiated the way they want him to. Cameron will be a "Dead Duck" Prime Minister after the Referendum whether we stay in the EU or get out. So should the UK vote OUT then it will be two years from the date of application that we would leave which should be around 2017/18 even if negotiations are not finished.
Read on Anthony. It was in response to a post by Clueless. As I said, I dont care who joins, just as long as everyone living in that country does not have a right to come and live here, with no strings attached.
To be fair I've just noticed you have put in a pretty big edit in one of your posts Anthony. And to answer that, I'd say, as I said earlier, people can live in other countries, but from the rest of the world we have control and can limit them if we want. For those from the EU we have no control, and they can come, and even go, whenever they want. They are the unknown, the ones we cant plan for.
I supposed you could look at it that way, clueless, and not that it's Turkey that through the Syrian War and flood of refugees crisis has deliberatly been turning a blind eye and letting the flood wash on European shores and then basically saying "Well, if you want me to stop the flood, tighten up my borders, stop people traffickers, the people smugglers selling dodgy boats, life saving equipment to the refugees, who are doing all this with our complete knowledge.......then let's "talk"", That is, in truth, a deal that, against the numbers of constantly fleeing refugees, is having no effect whatsoever because the number of refugees being returned to Turkey is so low. That deal was merely for the Media and Politicians try to tell us that they were doing something that would stop the flood.......Yeah, Okay.
How many counties are there in this committee, about 28 aint there?? Which is basically what it is. So, why do things get passed, if it only takes one country to veto it? I'm guessing its because pressure is brought to bear, wrangling, underhand dealing and all kinds of persuasion goes on, in order to get the outcome required. They sit there for days and nights until someone cracks. Its called negotiations
Turkey can't cope. It's in a state of civil war itself for one thing. Of course their first option is going to be to turn a blind eye. Except they didn't did they. The set up camps for refugees, but they were quickly overwhelmed. The eu has said to Turkey, you figure out a way to stop more people coming to Europe and will give you money and perks. So Turkey closed the border, and started posting escaped refugees back. I am wholeheartedly opposed to the way things were handled. But I have no issue with some kind of deal with turkey. Just not that one. Turkey is taking a proper financial battering. Between tension with Russia after shooting down one of their planes, and fear due to their own internal troubles, tourism there had practically collapsed. We could say that's not our fault. It's not our problem. But if individual countries can't help each other out from time to time, is that not a massive step backward?
