YOU'VE GOT TO BE JOKING, USA!!

Discussion in 'Off-Topic Discussion' started by ARMANDII, Oct 25, 2016.

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  1. pete

    pete Growing a bit of this and a bit of that....

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    Yep UKIP made a difference, but how many MPs did they get?

    The establishment have all things weighted in their favour, and it's looking like the establishment will once again have their say over the will of the people regarding the referendum.
    It's very much in the balance whether Brexit will ever be allowed to happen.
     
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    • ARMANDII

      ARMANDII Low Flying Administrator Staff Member

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      No, I don't think so, Pete, although I'm sure many people who voted to stay in the EU will hope so. But, if you look at the judgement it's not about stopping BREXIT taking place it's about whether or not the House of Commons has the power to decide on triggering Article 50.
      The estimate is that the Tories have enough of a majority with 329 MP's , even with the few rebel Tory MP's, to pass the Bill for Article 50. What Mrs May wants/wanted to avoid was delaying the stated March triggering. I can't see the Government winning their proposed appeal with the Supreme Court. The Tories could go for a General Election, which I think Labour at present,, has no chance of winning, and that legally would give them the Mandate to trigger Article 50 without referring to the House of Commons but that would mean even further delay.:wallbanging::coffee::snorky:
       
    • pete

      pete Growing a bit of this and a bit of that....

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      There you go, delay after delay.
      We have already had delays, and it could go on and on until we are all fed up with the whole idea.
       
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      • ARMANDII

        ARMANDII Low Flying Administrator Staff Member

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        Well, I think we would have been a bit unworldly and naive, Pete, if we hadn't expected legal wranglings, resistance from people, organisations with hidden agenda's, using our very own democratic and legal system to delay or whatever the inevitable BREXIT.:dunno::coffee::snorky:
         
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        • pete

          pete Growing a bit of this and a bit of that....

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          Just have a problem with the "inevitable" bit.;)
           
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          • daitheplant

            daitheplant Total Gardener

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            Let`s cut to the quick. The PEOPLE have opted out of the EU, therefore WE should be allowed to invoke article 50. It has NOTHING to do with the judiciary.
             
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            • ARMANDII

              ARMANDII Low Flying Administrator Staff Member

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              :heehee::loll::lunapic 130165696578242 5: Well, think about it, there really isn't any political option for this Government, or any Party, to ignore the Referendum no matter what. For any Country to declare it's leaving the EU after a Government called Referendum, go through through all the Political turmoil that has happened, and will happen, and then change it's mind and ignore the decision of the People would not only cause Political chaos with the UK but would reduce the country to be a laughing stock globally. There is now a lot more to play for than just technical points and arguments. Legally, there is nothing that can stop BREXIT, and politically there isn't an MP out there, bar the SNP, who would stand in front of the BREXIT Tank rumbling along.:coffee::heehee:
               
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              • ARMANDII

                ARMANDII Low Flying Administrator Staff Member

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                I agree with you Dai. But unfortunately the opponents of BREXIT will use our Democratic beliefs and the Judiciary to bring any, and every, point of legal argument to delay the progress while trying to undermine the Government, the Referendum and the triggering of Article 50, not with the UK's interests at heart but for their own organisations commercial and personal financial interests.:dunno::snorky:
                 
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                • longk

                  longk Total Gardener

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                  Why apologise - it is your democratic right to be wrong if you want to be :roflol:

                  Anyway to be serious now..................

                  I've never understood the logic of calling voting for the "least worst" plank just because they have a chance of winning a protest vote. If you want to lodge a protest vote don't vote for either plank but vote for a candidate that deserves the vote even if they do have no chance.
                   
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                  • ARMANDII

                    ARMANDII Low Flying Administrator Staff Member

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                    I agree, longk, but unfortunately in this USA Presidential election the American public has no third candidate to vote for.:dunno: As I said earlier most of the World seems to be in the turmoil of loss of faith in the Establishment Politicians of their countries and turning in exasperation to even worse candidates, or entering into a new phase of relationships with trade organisations like Canada and the UK, or like the EU facing general political unhappiness within it's members acerbated by the immigration crisis, and Russian trying to flex it's muscles and adopting an expansionist policy.
                    Hopefully, we'll get to live through it all and within a couple of years or so we might see some stability in all area.............and then again.:dunno::snorky::coffee:
                     
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                    • pete

                      pete Growing a bit of this and a bit of that....

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                    • ARMANDII

                      ARMANDII Low Flying Administrator Staff Member

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                      And has there even been a mention of the last lot???:dunno: :heehee: I doubt whether most Americans know there are other Political Parties beyond the Republicans and Democrats and perhaps it isn't in their mentality to even think of voting outside the two main parties.:wallbanging::snorky:
                       
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                      • pete

                        pete Growing a bit of this and a bit of that....

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                        Sounds familiar.

                        You either vote for the plank, (longks word), you least hate, or you can always waste your vote on someone who doesn't stand a cat in hells chance.

                        And they call that DEMOCRACY????????
                         
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                        • longk

                          longk Total Gardener

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                          https://ballotpedia.org/Presidential_candidates,_2016

                          A vote for a plank (it is the best non sweary word that I can think of) is a wasted vote. A vote for a no-hoper that you actually agree with (or largely agree with) is never a wasted vote. For UKIP to get an MP people had to vote for no-hopers. Change in any system only ever comes about as a result of a change in voting habits.
                           
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                          • Anthony Rogers

                            Anthony Rogers Guest

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                            I think the only way UKIP got its MP was that people voted for the sitting MP they were used to and it was a coincidence he had changed sides ( partys ).
                            I believe that if he'd stayed as a Conservative then he'd still be the MP now and UKIP wouldn't have one at all.
                            After all, no where else in th Country voted in a UKIP MP.
                             
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