Your Day (apart from gardening) - what took place?

Discussion in 'Off-Topic Discussion' started by rosebay, Aug 5, 2015.

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  1. ARMANDII

    ARMANDII Low Flying Administrator Staff Member

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    True, clueless, but unfortunately technology has advanced so far now that in a state of War unless we had a really good stealth answer to it even today's aircraft would be hard put to deliver a weapon in the right place.:dunno::snorky:
     
  2. clueless1

    clueless1 member... yep, that's what I am:)

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    Big picture. Our missiles are kaput because of a cyber attack. Conventional kit is on its way to us. Big picture would be, our own cyber offensive shuts down or at least messes with the enemy's radar/other warning systems for just long enough to sneak an actual aircraft through. Perhaps throw in a few drones or even manned fighter aircraft to attack a different target to serve as a distraction.

    When I was at uni, I had to do a speech on a topic of my choice as part of my course to get points for communication and presentation skills. I figured a controversial topic would be most memorable and therefore get new most marks. So I chose nuclear warfare. I did a lot if research, including reading declassified world war 2 records. It didn't take too long to figure that a common strategy of allied, especially British forces, was to launch huge attacks on multiple seemingly disparate targets at exactly the same time (on many missions, down to the minute) so that the enemy couldn't figure out where to concentrate their forces. Meanwhile, timed to happen a couple of hours later, often two smaller groups of allied forces would simultaneously attack two much higher value targets, relying on the fact that all attention was focused elsewhere.

    Of course the only ever real nuclear assaults didn't follow that strategy, but taking it all together, the modern day equivalent might be to try to shut down warning systems, simultaneously send tornadoes and ships to one or two areas, and send in a couple of vulcan equivalents to shut the whole problem down.
     
  3. ARMANDII

    ARMANDII Low Flying Administrator Staff Member

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    Big Picture.......As any RAF personnel would tell you, if you paid for the round, "Dream On"., clueless. Unfortunately, even the Americans with all their resources can't achieve anyone one of those.
    In 1960, 1961, 1962, the US held a military defence exercise testing their country's radar and air defences. A flight of Vulcans actually penetrated the defences with ease using the then available counter electronic equipment the RAF had and overflew a certain american city. At the time it was hushed up but everyone in the USA Military, the US Government, the UK Government, and everyone in the RAF knew it. But that was in the days of quite land based primitive radar. Nowadays, the radar equipment is a different animal and not only is it land based, aircraft based, but it is satellite based being even more driven by Space exploration.
    The supposed opposition is not thick and have carefully laid out and practiced method to defend themselves against missile attack by any means while also having the technical equipment to do it. Our Bombers in the past went to the High Altitude mode until the Russians developed missiles and Fighter Interceptors to combat them. Then they went to low level TFR [Terrain Following Radar] mode, until they realised they that all countries had even hand held missiles that could knock them down. Now it's all about stealth, but even that's not missile proof as a F117 Stealth Bomber was shot down by the Yugoslavs in 1999. They detected it on really old fashioned Soviet radar units and shot it down with a "bog standard" Russian S-125 missile.
    So Big Picture........there is no real way to guarantee an attack by an aircraft would be successful.........or in a Nuclear War that there would be a country left to come home to.:coffee::snorky:
     
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    • clueless1

      clueless1 member... yep, that's what I am:)

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      ....anything.

      It amuses me when I see youtube clips of martial arts practitioners claiming a particular technique will always work against a particular attack. Our instructors in our club are a tad more realistic. They point out that everything we practice, everything we train for, does nothing beyond slightly increase our range of options, if we don't get knocked out or stabbed or beaten with a bat.

      Same on the national/international scale. There is nothing that could ever guarantee successful defence, but by combining as many different options as possible, rather than placing all eggs in one basket, you at least increase your chances of success. The RAF know this. I remember a senior RAF spokesperson on telly explaining why the tornado is a better aircraft than some foreign counterparts even though it is not the fastest or most agile etc. He said it was great because you could change its role on a mission by mission basis. It could be a bomber, a fighter, a reconnaissance plane, or any combination of, depending on how it was kitted on the day. Same bloke also made no secret of his disappointment that the powers that be had decided against a considered notion of buying some Migs and refitting them with British engines but that's another story. By the same token, I once red that the aircraft used by the red arrows is the most manoeuvrable fighter planes ever built, but was rejected as an actual combat aircraft because it is only good at one thing. Apparently put it in a dog fight and it would kick butt as long as the fight was short and local. But it can't carry anything too heavy, or fly particularly far, so it was 'relegated' to the role of trainer/display plane.
       
    • ARMANDII

      ARMANDII Low Flying Administrator Staff Member

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      Well, the Red Arrow are using the Hawk T1 at the moment although they have used the Gnat in the past. The "T1" is, obviously, for Trainer but the Hawk has been sold in combat form to certain Middle East countries in the ground attack role as was the Gnat.
      A training aircraft plays a really important part in the RAF so I would never call it relegated.
      I would doubt very much that the UK Military ever remotely thought of buying Migs as, quite honestly, they have never really been up to much. In the Korean war the USAF F86 Sabre had a 10 to 1 kill ration against the Mig. In Vietnam the Mig would only be used in ambush tactics in a hit and run mode as it would lose out against the F4 Phantom. Later Migs such as the Migs, 21 Fishbed, 27 Flogger, 29/33 Fulcrum, 31 Foxhound, all were fast but found to be limited in their use.:dunno:

      The thing is some aircraft can be adopted and modified to any role. They used to say about the Blackburn Buccaneer fighter/bomber attack aircraft that "the only thing that could replace the Buccaneer was another Buccaneer!". The Harrier initially in the RAF was moderately weaponised until the US Marines bought it and turned it into a heavily armed aircraft that they still love and use.

      Just as an aside, I was a serving ground crew member of the "Black Arrows" No.III Squadron [also known as Trouble One or Trembling First:heehee:] at RAF Wattisham. We were then using totally black painted Hunters while changing over to Mk.1A Lightnings.
      upload_2017-3-4_22-14-16.jpeg






      [​IMG]

      It was the Black Arrows that invented most of the aerobatic manoeuvres that you see the Red Arrow performing today. Also the Black Arrows is the only Squadron to perform a 22 aircraft loop.:love30::snorky:




      We then moved over to the Lightning aircraft still retaining the RAF Aerobatic Squadron title, which after a couple of years was taken over by No.56 Squadron.
      [​IMG]
       
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      • clueless1

        clueless1 member... yep, that's what I am:)

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        That's why I put the word relegated in quotes.

        I know nothing of such matters beyond bits and pieces I pick up from news or documentaries or stuff I read from time to time. I know that I've seen the red arrows perform several times and they never fail to impress. In fact impress is not the right word. Something far beyond impressed. I know that in order for the red arrows team to impress me as much as they do, they need several things. An amazing aircraft, some incredible skill, and a huge amount of support.
         
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        • ARMANDII

          ARMANDII Low Flying Administrator Staff Member

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          Yes, and you'll find the bond and trust between the Pilots and groundcrew is really tight!!
           
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          • Trunky

            Trunky ...who nose about gardening

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            Things you don't see every day.

            Driving home from work this afternoon along the A14, there was a bloke standing on a bridge over the carriageway - playing a set of bagpipes! :dunno: :scratch:
             
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            • ARMANDII

              ARMANDII Low Flying Administrator Staff Member

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              [​IMG]
               
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              • "M"

                "M" Total Gardener

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                When I was driving to work yesterday (early doors) some funny birds of some kind ran out in front of my car - one first, then another more tentatively. I thought that was cute and had made my day, but, a few feet ahead again, there was the most stunning male pheasant in the field running parallel to the road. He stood so proud (and colourful!) and gave me a look as if to say: How dare you interrupt my tranquillity: be gone! :snooty: :heehee:

                I am so blessed to have a journey where nature abounds and each journey brings new delights:wub2:
                 
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                • clueless1

                  clueless1 member... yep, that's what I am:)

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                  I was off work, and my car was in the garage getting an oil change. About an hour they said, we'll phone you they said. So I wandered aimlessly around town for two and a half hours, got myself a coffee, wandered some more, got bored, so walked to the garage to see if they were nearly done. There was my car, outside the garage but not where I'd left it, so it had clearly been moved, which probably meant it was done. It was. They just didn't phone me.
                   
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                  • JazzSi

                    JazzSi Super Gardener

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                    IMG_0119.jpg
                    Is this the one?
                     
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                    • redstar

                      redstar Total Gardener

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                      Blizzard happening now. Inside all day. Just stuff around the house. We have a generator so all is good .
                       
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                      • CanadianLori

                        CanadianLori Total Gardener

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                        Watching "Tugboat Annie Sails Again" right now and this morning enjoyed "Bend it Like Beckham". Cute.

                        Shovelled my way to the greenhouses and the bird feeder. Should say shovelled white stuff... :)
                         
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                        • Kandy

                          Kandy Will be glad to see the sun again soon.....

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                          Just been down to the dentist in the village for a filling.Not only did he do another two X-rays to go with the one he did the other week but was quiet brutal and I was shaking from head to foot.:sad: He even asked me if I wanted a numbing injection to which I replied yes as I told him I wasn't that brave to have work done without it:scratch: And so now the right side of my face is swollen and so is part of my tongue so I won't be drinking fluids for a couple of hours:snorky:

                          Oh and he now wants me back in six months time instead of the year so I expect it is because I have had work done unless it is a money making exercise as I normally only have to go every twelve months.Forgot to say that little exercise also cost £53 :sad:

                          And then the is tomorrow....:snorky:
                           
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                            Last edited: Mar 20, 2017
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