Diesel Dilemma ?

If we burn diesel some people ( it's actually a small percentage) will get irritated health. If we burn petrol the ozone layer gets damaged and the whole planet and everyone on it gets affected.

You choose ?

Modern diesels have effective Filters it's the old diesels that are dirty.

Example. My Toyota RAV4 Diesel has such effective DPFs that means the air exiting the exhaust is cleaner than the air entering the air box up front.

It's all a ruddy great con to get even more out of the motorist !

It's an easy choice if we are talking passenger cars you just buy what your choice is but what about Lorrys Bigger vans Trains and all the kit that would be almost ridiculous to fit petrol engines ?

I really cannot see the thieves that set taxation making any difference to vehicle prices until the roumour becomes reality and by then we will be told petrol is bad and to go back to diesel.

 

I think we are way off electric or hybrid and the batteries that those produced thus far have created far more environmental harm than the cars can save in their lifetime. Electric cars need power from somewhere and current power means burning unfriendly stuff anyway. Again it's all blooming smokescreen to convince us that spending money is the answer.

 

The other problem these clowns fail to recognise when imposing charges to enter cities is that the shops that are struggling to survive will struggle even more or fail. Most towns have empty shops and the numbers of them get more and more. Sit and watch them gain in numbers when the greedy councils jump on the bandwagon..

 

Not picking on anyone here, it is just relevant to the conversation that is going on..........

Sadly that is untrue for one simple reason - burnt fossil fuel has been added to the exhaust gases that was not in the air entering the air box. It is this fuel blend and it's subsequent treatment of the exhaust gasses that is the issue.
Diesel fuel contains more energy than petrol. Diesels were always slower because a] the means of extracting this energy meant that the moving parts in a diesel engine were significantly heavier and b] above a certain rpm efficiency dropped off rapidly. As the fuel delivery technology has improved these limitations have been negated resulting in the genuinely impressive power delivery of a good modern diesel, so much so that diesels are genuine race winners on the race track.
This performance is also helped by the fuel blends that we buy at the pumps. Diesel fuel used to be not much more than refined parrafin but now it is a very refined mix of chemicals. That mix also includes 7% biofuel which produces more NOx and it is this NOx that is the issue. NOx is very different from N2O (Nitrous Oxide).
Now the science bit (and I'll ask @PeterS if he can help here as this is not my field) as I understand it. NOx (Nitrogen Oxide) has always been present in diesel emmisions - the reason that it is now an issue is that it is now emitted as a far simpler compound than before when it was still carried in the soot particles which were far heavier and larger (on a microscopic level). As a result it is easier for it to enter the lung tissue and there are suggestions (although none of the trade journals that I get have quoted any studies confirming this) that it is entering the bloodstream as well.
The simplest analogy that I can think of is asbestos. We lived with asbestos building materials for many years with a low risk of harm but the second that the asbestos was disturbed causing asbestos dust the risk went through the roof. Long term exposure multiplied this risk massively.

If you look into the tailpipe of a modern diesel it is astonishingly clean but what you see is not always what you get. Fire up your old 1985 Maestro diesel (remember the soot that they spewed out!), shut the garage door and see how long you last before you bail out. Now try the same thing with your Euro6 diesel - I know which one will have you legging it quicker!

 

Hi LongK - I am afraid that I can't help - It's not something that I know about - but I have had a Google.

The impression that I get is that the exhaust from a diesel engine consists of NOx, and soot particles. The NOx is a mixture of NO and NO2. Nitrous Oxide (NO), is fairly safe and as pointed out above is used in medicine and dentistry. Nitrogen Dioxide (NO2) is more dangerous as it combines with water to produce Nitric Acid and other nasty chemicals, which are hazadous to health. However, NO will combine with Ozone to produce NO2 so NO is not totally off the hook. In both cases my feeling is that in the form of pure gasses they can enter the lungs and leave again fairly easily, though they will do damage in high concentrations.

By contrast the particles, mostly soot but soaked in nasty chemicals such as NO2 and Nitric Acid etc, easily enter the lungs but then get lodged there in the same way that particles of cigarette smoke accumulate. This causes a constant irritation and can cause cancer.

50 years ago people smoked and didn't realise the harm. I suspect it's the same with diesels, they may well be safer than 50 years ago, but today we are aware of the problems they cause.

 

As far as I'm concerned there is no dilemma.

Diesel cars will remain huge sellers due to most of us requiring the economy that goes with them and the way they drive. My Rav4 is very economical it goes like a train and is relaxing to drive. I don't want a revvy petrol for my use.

Back on the emmksions. The Toyota uses what they call DNPR which traps the dirty stuff then destroys it but burning it off . It does this in an unusual way by firing a 5th injector.

The system is so clean it registers zero on the MOT stations machine. Exactly zero. Few cars can do this and it baffles the testers occasionally.

So of course it's zero tax yes I mean it puts nowt out ? Er no it's £235 because it's a 4X4.... where we live now a 4X4 is essential it's no luxury. The tax system is there to rob us not to be fair.

 

DNPR is just Toyota speak for DPF. Diesel Particulate Filters are common across all manufacturers and the "fifth injector" is an integral part of the DPF system. It bleeds a special oil in which helps with the process.
The emissions test on an MOT only tests for soot/smoke. It is not a complete analysis of the elements emitted in the exhaust gases. Any modern diesel with a DPF should be at zero or darned close as far as soot goes.

 

It is the smoke density (soot) that is measured not the make up of the gasses. Particles/particulates is a cover all term that theoretically covers all the chemicals, gasses and the smoke in the emissions. So as a result the manufacturers decided that a Diesel Particulate Filter sounds more environmentally friendly that the more accurate description of Diesel Soot Filter!
The MOT emissions test is very different to the tests that the cars undergo to ensure conformity with Euro6 (which as we know bear no relation to the actual emissions of ordinary cars in the real world that are driven by normal people!).