Cars!

Discussion in 'Off-Topic Discussion' started by Sheal, Mar 6, 2015.

  1. Fat Controller

    Fat Controller 'Cuddly' Scottish Admin! Staff Member

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  2. ARMANDII

    ARMANDII Low Flying Administrator Staff Member

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    I suspect the chart was made by Trump, JWK:heehee:
     
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    • HarryS

      HarryS Eternally Optimistic Gardener

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      You also see a lot of BMWs sticking out of hedges.
      Parked in disabled parking places.
      Preciously parked across two car parking spaces.
      2 inches off my back bumper as I go slower and slower...
      etc
      etc
      If ever we need to cull the human race.. well BMW drivers do tick a lot of the boxes :snorky:
      Note : this does exclude MINI drivers - 'cos we have one :biggrin:
       
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      • ARMANDII

        ARMANDII Low Flying Administrator Staff Member

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        upload_2018-1-15_0-14-16.jpeg
         
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        • Jiffy

          Jiffy The Match is on Fire

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          What make of car is Industry Average?
           
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          • JWK

            JWK Gardener Staff Member

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            • sandymac

              sandymac Super Gardener

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              The problem with 3 cylinder engines is that you do not have a continuous power stroke. To achieve that in a four stroke engine you need at least 4 pistons so one unit is always on the power stroke.
              360 degrees 4 pistons one at every 90 degrees. (better with 5 pistons or more)
              With three pistons one every 120 degrees you have 30 degrees between each power stroke when the pistons are not driving the engine hence you have created a problem, (several actually) you now have balance problems and power output problems.
              To overcome the power output problems they usually stick an extra large flywheel to keep the plant turning. The problem with this is you now have osculating power one moment the engine is driving the flywheel the next the flywheel is driving the engine causing very small slow down and speed ups three times every revolution putting huge strain on the clutch and causing vibration.
              With three cylinders the engine crankshaft as with all other components are suffering these osculating forces causing vibration, the running face of the bottom end bearings start getting hammered due to this change of load. So then we get into the issue of balance weights and shafts in the engine to overcome this. Why would you engineer problems into an engine then have to spend time and money trying to overcome this. I have heard the argument less pistons less friction less inertia but I do not think that stands up. It is cheaper to stick a big flywheel in than have a fourth cylinder. It only makes sense to the manufacturer less engineering more profit.

              RegardsSandy
               
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                Last edited: Jan 15, 2018
              • Sandy Ground

                Sandy Ground Total Gardener

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                My take on three cylinder engines:

                First off, they have been around for donkeys years. As two strokes (pre war DKW motorcycles, Kawasaki, SAAB) As two stroke diesels (Detroit) Four stroke diesels (Perkins) as well as four stroke motorcycles and cars.

                As regards power output. Look at the success DKW, Triumph, Kawasaki, SAAB had with them. They regularly beat things with more cylinders on the track.

                Although balance problems do exist, many manufacturers are moving over to them, and for some good reasons:

                1) They reduce vehicle weight. That improves both handling, and braking.

                2) They have less parts. That makes then both cheaper to produce, and cheaper to repair.

                3) They are physically smaller. That can be used to improve vehicle safety.

                4) Built correctly, the can deliver very similar mileage to diesels.

                5) Emissions can be severely reduced. The (newish) Volvo one for example, is down to 80g from a 150bhp engine...

                Most of the problems traditionally associated with triples have now been solved by engineers. For example, Ford have solved the balance question by using a flywheel and harmonic crank pulley. Thats the same way they balanced their V8's 50 or 60 years ago!

                Theres only one problem with them. Its the way they are perceived. V8's (my favourite) or V12's, even straight 6's are better than straight 4's, but nobody ever seems to say so.
                 
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                • Jiffy

                  Jiffy The Match is on Fire

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                  I've allways like the 6's and 8's better than the 4's, hate the 4's with big trubo's in which to get the same hp as the 6's
                   
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                  • JWK

                    JWK Gardener Staff Member

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                    From my perspective of 3 cylinder engines the proof of the pudding is in the eating. I had a Triumph Trident in the 60s, a wonderful bike, very smooth compared to my previous T100SS twin, indeed they make a modern triple cylinder bike now, I doubt they would still be making them if there were problems.
                     
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                    • Sandy Ground

                      Sandy Ground Total Gardener

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                      @JWK in that case, you may remember the most famous Trident of them all, the one known as "Slippery Sam"???
                       
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                      • HarryS

                        HarryS Eternally Optimistic Gardener

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                        Engines have been made with 3 , 4 , 6 , 8 etc cylinders. The one that causes problems is a 5 cylinder, getting a balanced firing pattern is difficult . I know Audi developed one ,but not sure of other manufacturers.
                         
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                        • JWK

                          JWK Gardener Staff Member

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                          No I had to google that, either my memory has gone or my memory has gone :)
                           
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                          • Sandy Ground

                            Sandy Ground Total Gardener

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                            Better not mention the Honda RC149 that @HarryS just reminded me of...a 5 cylinder 125cc four stroke.

                            Several manufacturers have used 5's. Volvo might be the best known. @longk will be able to confirm or deny this, but I'm sure Mercedes had a 5 cylinder diesel for a time.
                             
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                            • longk

                              longk Total Gardener

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                              I have a 2009 Smart ForTwo and that's as modern as I want to get. 2004 Merc 270cdi - that's got CAN-BUS. Hopefully I'll get my '82 Merc 280SL finished this year - proper Merc!
                               
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