Brexit - am I stupid or what?

Discussion in 'Off-Topic Discussion' started by PeterS, Dec 16, 2017.

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  1. ARMANDII

    ARMANDII Low Flying Administrator Staff Member

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    Yep, that struck me to, clanless. There she was sitting at the conference table and all the so called leaders were making it their business to look away from her and talk among themselves. I couldn't help but feel sympathy for her trying to look unaffected by the deliberate ignorant snubbing.:coffee:
     
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    • clanless

      clanless Total Gardener

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      Another referendum? It's no different to Labour demanding another general election because they didn't get enough votes.

      If we do have another referendum - I can tell you now, I'll be sending a stiff letter to my MP.
       
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      • pete

        pete Growing a bit of this and a bit of that....

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        You know, I still get the feeling we will be contributing, whatever happens.
         
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        • pete

          pete Growing a bit of this and a bit of that....

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          Well that will give him a laugh.
          He's in it for the party, not the electorate.
           
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          • clanless

            clanless Total Gardener

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            I'll send it by recorded delivery - that will make him sit up and take notice.
             
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            • ARMANDII

              ARMANDII Low Flying Administrator Staff Member

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              You're been too positive again, pete...........I think:heehee:
               
            • pete

              pete Growing a bit of this and a bit of that....

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              I just dont think our bunch have the balls.
               
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              • ARMANDII

                ARMANDII Low Flying Administrator Staff Member

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                [​IMG]

                Well, if you're being kicked in them by the very people who should be backing you and not criticising you they might have stood a better chance. As I said, you, I or the rest of the UK public were not present at the negotiations and yet were only to ready to listen to the anti-Brexit propaganda and give the EU the encouragement they wanted and loved.:dunno::wallbanging::coffee:
                 
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                • longk

                  longk Total Gardener

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                  It has always been clear that if we agreed to retain Schengen and the EU court jurisdiction (over matters concerning financial legislation) then the FSP would remain in place.

                  The EU is as democratic as any democratic system can ever be. The various institutions are;
                  • European Parliament - elected by the public
                  • European Council - the heads of the member states
                  • European Commission - one member per state. Those that operate underneath them have no executive powers, they are effectively Europes Whitehall
                  • European Bank - made up of the national banks of the Euro zone. As with all large state financial institutions its effect may be felt outside of its immediate area of authority in much the same way as the decisions of the Federal Reserve in the US affects world markets.
                  • Council of the EU - made up of one minister from each member state (these can change from session to session). Basically the EU version of the House of Lords, the only difference being that ministers are elected in their own countries!
                  • The EU court - best till last! Like our high court but frequently wackier! I tend to agree that this one needs a kick up the butt!!!
                  What comes from Europe is agreed (and formulated) by our elected government. IO think that people lose sight of the aims of the EU, both today and in all its previous incarnations, namely "make war unthinkable and materially impossible". It was as recent as the nineties that there was civil war and ethnic cleansing on "our" doorstep and this is one of the reasons that I believe that the EU is important. In line with its stated aims of promoting fairness and cooperation I believe that accepting former Iron Bloc countries is by and large a good thing even if it does cost us money. Turkey is a grey area (and one that I'm not really sold on) but it does have to be remembered that they are a moderately important voice in the middle east.
                  So all this talk of being undemocratic just smacks of Dail Wail and Jeremy Vine ballcocks. Just my thoughts on the matter.

                  You and FC in one reply Duh :heehee: :sofa:

                  Yes, I agree but the only poor behaviour in Westminster that impacts on the Brexit negotiations is governmental disharmony, infighting and plain old backstabbing. This government isn't rudderless, the problem is that there are several hands on the tiller fighting to control that rudder.
                   
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                  • pete

                    pete Growing a bit of this and a bit of that....

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                    Dont put me in that bunch, we never had a say apart from in /out in the ref.
                    After that it was all down to those that know better:old:
                     
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                    • pete

                      pete Growing a bit of this and a bit of that....

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                      :biggrin:
                      AND?:biggrin:
                      We can all do that, but what does it mean???:scratch:
                       
                    • ARMANDII

                      ARMANDII Low Flying Administrator Staff Member

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                      I can't quite grasp what is democratic about countries being basically governed, politically and economically, combined with a loss of sovereignty by a unelected group of Bureaucrats with a stated aim of Federalisation, where behind the scenes the strings are being pulled by Germany and France.:doh::scratch: I didn't vote Junker, Barnier, Sabine Weyland, Tusk, Didier Seeuws, etc into the leadership of the EU of which we are supposed to be a member.......did you or anyone in this country or any other person in the members of the EU?? I don't see that in any context of being democratic when an unelected group are the only ones who decide who they want to control mostly democratic countries.:wallbanging:
                      I don't have any regard for Nigel Farage but I did, and still do, agree with his accusation of the EU acting like the Mafia and none of them ever having a proper job, with statements like......

                      “You’re behaving like the mafia, like we’re a hostage. We’re not — we’re free to go,”

                      You [the EU] have shown yourself with these demands to be vindictive, to be nasty. All I can say is thank goodness we’re leaving,”


                      I wouldn't buy a second hand car from Nigel, but I have to agree with what he said.
                       
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                      • clanless

                        clanless Total Gardener

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                        I thought we weren't in the Schengen zone - at least that what Cammers said to the Beeb?

                        But then..was this Fake News?
                         
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                        • ARMANDII

                          ARMANDII Low Flying Administrator Staff Member

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                          We're not, that's what longk is saying:dunno: So he's just saying "if" we were.:snorky:
                           
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                          • longk

                            longk Total Gardener

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                            As I say it is not undemocratic it is just Dail Wail and Jeremy Vine ballcocks spouted to the masses by the Brexit campaigners. We may not agree with it (the EU) and its decisions but it is democratic. Equally, voting to leave was democratic which is why, although I disagree, the vote has to be respected.
                             
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