Brexit - am I stupid or what?

Discussion in 'Off-Topic Discussion' started by PeterS, Dec 16, 2017.

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  1. clanless

    clanless Total Gardener

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    But we can't retain something if we don't already have/participate in it?

    I'm off to bed - it's been a long and soggy day - night all :dbgrtmb:
     
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    • ARMANDII

      ARMANDII Low Flying Administrator Staff Member

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      :hate-shocked::runforhills::runforhills::runforhills::heehee:
       
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      • longk

        longk Total Gardener

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        No, we are signed up to the Schengen agreement but once we leave the EU that becomes invalid. If we chose to remain signed up to it the Financial Services Passport would be available to us going forward even out of the EU.
         
      • Fat Controller

        Fat Controller 'Cuddly' Scottish Admin! Staff Member

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        You are right @longk - it is democratic, only it is not democratic for us as we have no say in who gets elected to these various parts of the EU.
         
      • Fat Controller

        Fat Controller 'Cuddly' Scottish Admin! Staff Member

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        But surely remaining signed up to that would virtually negate us leaving?
         
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        • pete

          pete Growing a bit of this and a bit of that....

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          I'm missing something here, nothing new.:smile:
          We are signed up to it, but we dont agree with it?
          EU has me mind boggled:rolleyespink:
           
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          • ARMANDII

            ARMANDII Low Flying Administrator Staff Member

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            No, sorry, longk................we are not signed up members of the Schengen agreement. Those members of the EU that are are........Belgium, Czech Republic, Denmark, Germany, Estonia, Greece, France, Italy, Latvia, Lithuania, Luxembourg, Hungary, Malta, Netherlands, Austria, Poland, Portugal, Slovenia, Slovakia, Finland, Sweden and Iceland

            "The Schengen Agreement (English: /ˈʃɛŋən/) is a treaty which led to the creation of Europe's Schengen Area, in which internal border checks have largely been abolished. It was signed on 14 June 1985, near the town of Schengen, Luxembourg, by five of the ten member states of the then European Economic Community."
             
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            • shiney

              shiney President, Grumpy Old Men's Club Staff Member

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              I try not to join in any of these discussions as I keep my arguing outside of GC - where possible. What I occasionally do is just state facts.

              The UK and Eire have opted out of Schengen.

              The UK wants to maintain its own borders, and Eire chose to preserve its free movement arrangement with the UK - called the Common Travel Area - rather than join Schengen. That was, in essence, part of the Good Friday Agreement.

              What we did opt in to is the Schengen Information System (SIS) which is the information exchange on typical police type topics.
               
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              • longk

                longk Total Gardener

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                But we do. We've elected our own government in full knowledge of the EU systems. So we know from the make up of the cabinet or shadow cabinet who we are voting for to represent us in Europe. And we can all vote for our MEP directly although few do but still feel the right to bemoan the "lack of democracy".

                Oh my sweet lord - how embarrassing is that! For fifteen'ish months I have been describing on this forum the freedom of movement as the Schengen agreement and you've only just pointed it out to me :doh: I feel a total plonker now!
                 
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                • ARMANDII

                  ARMANDII Low Flying Administrator Staff Member

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                  Oh, just get in line, longk, I'm the bloke at the very front of the line of Plonkers

                  [​IMG]

                  most of the people immediately behind me are the EU Hierarchy anyway.:dunno::heehee:
                   
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                  • shiney

                    shiney President, Grumpy Old Men's Club Staff Member

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                    Some of those people in that queue look a bit too close to each other. Especially if they've got plonkers! :hate-shocked:
                     
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                    • Loofah

                      Loofah Admin Staff Member

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                      Try looking at VAPP (Veterans and Peoples Party); not perfect but have some solid ideas at least and they can't be worse than any other option at this point.
                       
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                      • clanless

                        clanless Total Gardener

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                        Not when you're amongst friends :spinning:.

                        I see that the foreign press has caught onto the way that Tes is being treated by the EU. It's a bit of a thing when Tes says that the EU need to respect the UK - all they (EU) are doing if fueling anti EU feelings in the UK.

                        The sooner we are out the better.
                         
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                        • Fat Controller

                          Fat Controller 'Cuddly' Scottish Admin! Staff Member

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                          For once, I find myself agreeing with her - it is all well and good saying no, or saying it won't work, but completely unacceptable to do so without saying why it won't work, or indeed making a counter proposal.

                          That is the very reason people like me would be no good at these sort of negotiations, as they would get told where to shove it, and to sing for their £39bn
                           
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                          • shiney

                            shiney President, Grumpy Old Men's Club Staff Member

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                            I watched the Politics programme yesterday (sad, I know :noidea:) and Dominic Raab, Brexit Secretary, came across as being very good and handled the questions and attacks by the panel extremely well.

                            @Fat Controller He said exactly what you have said. He more or less said that we can't keep wasting our time coming up with proposals if the EU won't say anything but 'No'! They need to make some sort of positive comment - even if it's 'don't bother'.

                            I think that Raab is a good up and coming politician. He seems personable, stays calm and puts forward a cogent argument - even if you don't necessarily agree with him.
                             
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