Brexit - am I stupid or what?

Discussion in 'Off-Topic Discussion' started by PeterS, Dec 16, 2017.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. ARMANDII

    ARMANDII Low Flying Administrator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Jan 12, 2019
    Messages:
    48,096
    Gender:
    Male
    Ratings:
    +100,845
    Actually, longk, it's not:dunno: The, at the moment, suspended Northern Ireland Government has the powers to reject what is really a mythical proposal by any Secretary of State that there should be a unification of the two states of Ireland. The historical facts of Ireland still have real ramifications should any Northern Ireland Government, never mind a English Secretary of State, propose such a unification and that is why the UK Government is extremely cautious in the way it is dealing with the border problem highlighted in BREXIT. There is no legal proposal or desire for a unification to be forced upon a Northern Ireland Government by a UK Government, such a move would restart the "Troubles" all over again igniting another bloody civil war.......and all political parties are more than aware of that.
    If you ever visit Chatsworth Estate in Derbyshire, which I highly recommend, stop off at St Peters Church in the estate Village of Edensor. If you go inside you will find a plaque on one of the walls commemorating an ancestor of mine who was Secretary of State for Northern Ireland in the 1800's and who was shot to death for his pains!!!!
    Also buried there is Kathleen Cavendish, sister of J F Kennedy, who married into the Cavendish family, along with a number of my ancestors.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 13, 2018
  2. ARMANDII

    ARMANDII Low Flying Administrator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Jan 12, 2019
    Messages:
    48,096
    Gender:
    Male
    Ratings:
    +100,845
    Yep, looks pretty straight forward and simple now............only need all Government Ministers, MP's and political parties to like it, vote for it, then get the 27 other countries in the EU to like it and vote for it......piece of cake!!!:dunno::hapydancsmil::hapfeet::wallbanging::heehee:
     
    • Funny Funny x 4
      Last edited by a moderator: Nov 13, 2018
    • john558

      john558 Total Gardener

      Joined:
      Feb 14, 2015
      Messages:
      2,596
      Gender:
      Male
      Occupation:
      Retired
      Location:
      Ramsgate, Kent
      Ratings:
      +9,269
      Lets keep having a vote until we get the right answer (for some) The majority voted to leave, so lets leave please.
       
      • Like Like x 2
      • ARMANDII

        ARMANDII Low Flying Administrator Staff Member

        Joined:
        Jan 12, 2019
        Messages:
        48,096
        Gender:
        Male
        Ratings:
        +100,845
        [​IMG]:heehee:
         
        • Funny Funny x 2
        • clanless

          clanless Total Gardener

          Joined:
          Jan 20, 2013
          Messages:
          3,201
          Gender:
          Male
          Occupation:
          Gentleman of leisure.
          Location:
          North Wales
          Ratings:
          +7,630
          That's what I keep saying......but no one's taking me seriously....:doh::th scifD36:
           
          • Like Like x 2
          • ARMANDII

            ARMANDII Low Flying Administrator Staff Member

            Joined:
            Jan 12, 2019
            Messages:
            48,096
            Gender:
            Male
            Ratings:
            +100,845
            I've never understood the phrase.......

            "you cannot simultaneously retain your cake and eat it". Once the cake is eaten, it is gone. It can be used to say that one cannot or should not have or want more than one deserves or is reasonable, or that one cannot or should not try to have two incompatible things



            [​IMG]

            Let's face it the cake in not gone just because you've eaten it, it's now in your Belly!!:heehee:
             
            • Like Like x 1
            • longk

              longk Total Gardener

              Joined:
              Nov 24, 2011
              Messages:
              11,401
              Location:
              Oxfordshire
              Ratings:
              +23,150
              The Sec of State only has the power to order a referendum on the issue not to order unification. From the Northern Ireland Act 1998.........
              "1Status of Northern Ireland.
              (1)It is hereby declared that Northern Ireland in its entirety remains part of the United Kingdom and shall not cease to be so without the consent of a majority of the people of Northern Ireland voting in a poll held for the purposes of this section in accordance with Schedule 1.

              (2)But if the wish expressed by a majority in such a poll is that Northern Ireland should cease to be part of the United Kingdom and form part of a united Ireland, the Secretary of State shall lay before Parliament such proposals to give effect to that wish as may be agreed between Her Majesty’s Government in the United Kingdom and the Government of Ireland."

              (Northern Ireland Act 1998)

              "1The Secretary of State may by order direct the holding of a poll for the purposes of section 1 on a date specified in the order.

              2Subject to paragraph 3, the Secretary of State shall exercise the power under paragraph 1 if at any time it appears likely to him that a majority of those voting would express a wish that Northern Ireland should cease to be part of the United Kingdom and form part of a united Ireland.

              3The Secretary of State shall not make an order under paragraph 1 earlier than seven years after the holding of a previous poll under this Schedule."

              (Northern Ireland Act 1998)

              I totally agree that it is a social minefield. It is why it is so important that there is no hard border between the ROI and NI. But informed estimates are that the voting majority of NI will be of the Republican persuasion by the early 2020's.
              Burying our heads in the sand does not make the facts any different.
               
              • Agree Agree x 1
              • ARMANDII

                ARMANDII Low Flying Administrator Staff Member

                Joined:
                Jan 12, 2019
                Messages:
                48,096
                Gender:
                Male
                Ratings:
                +100,845
                Which is exactly the point,longk..........quoting a "power" that is, in reality, completely irrelevant, in that such a "power" is annulled by para 3:wallbanging:. It is a piece of legislation that is only there on paper and, as I said, no UK Government would even think of using it in any circumstances owing to the real dangers therein.
                The history of Northern Ireland and the present state of two opposite thinking political parties in the present Northern Irish Government has brought about the present situation. The only desire for a unification of Northern Ireland and Ireland is with Sinn Fien, The Workers Party, and the Irish Government.
                I could quote you reams and reams of legal powers, longk, of the Northern Ireland, English, Welsh, and Scottish Governments that can do this and that but, reality, none of them would either recognise the circumstances that would bring them into contemplation or proposal because of the effects of such action. Being given certain political powers does not mean that they are actually meant to be used as they are such a poisoned Chalice and, in fact, are written down as a legal agree to satisfy and pacify organisations likely to turn back to violence or political chaos. I can assure you that beneath Government buildings there are vast archives of legal documents that were/are meant to be political sweeteners and never ever to be used. Research on Northern Ireland will show that there is no desire, except for the political parties mentioned. The ordinary man/woman on the streets of Northern Ireland be it Catholic, Protestant, and non political, want a referendum for reuniification because they know of the dangers of a return to the bloody Troubles even though some Catholics support a unification. No referendum for a unification in 5 years or any other time period has been proposed by the Northern Ireland Government although other interested individuals or organisations might like to throw it into the pot every now and then.:wallbanging:
                 
                • Like Like x 1
                • longk

                  longk Total Gardener

                  Joined:
                  Nov 24, 2011
                  Messages:
                  11,401
                  Location:
                  Oxfordshire
                  Ratings:
                  +23,150
                  Para3 reads "3The Secretary of State shall not make an order under paragraph 1 earlier than seven years after the holding of a previous poll under this Schedule." Now to the best of my knowledge the last vote was way back in the '70s so para3 annuls no powers whatsoever at the moment.

                  I completely agree. But that fact does not mean that pressure will not come to bear at some point. And what were meant as sweeteners could bite the incumbent Sec of State at some time in the future - if one side feels that "their rights in law" are being ignored we could still see a return to violence .

                  We can both quote polls that prove our point no doubt.

                  [​IMG]
                  (Brexit, the Border and the Union - Lord Ashcroft Polls)

                  42% of people in the North want a united Ireland - poll

                  Brexit causes surge in support for united Ireland, poll finds

                  Anyway, time for the usual disclaimer - all posts are in the interests of debate and discussion and totally without malice.
                   
                  • Friendly Friendly x 2
                  • Like Like x 1
                  • ARMANDII

                    ARMANDII Low Flying Administrator Staff Member

                    Joined:
                    Jan 12, 2019
                    Messages:
                    48,096
                    Gender:
                    Male
                    Ratings:
                    +100,845
                    As always, longk:love30::snorky:. That can't be said about what's been taking place in the UK and EU BREXIT "negotiations":doh::heehee:
                     
                    • Friendly Friendly x 2
                    • longk

                      longk Total Gardener

                      Joined:
                      Nov 24, 2011
                      Messages:
                      11,401
                      Location:
                      Oxfordshire
                      Ratings:
                      +23,150
                      I disagree.....................................................................................................................................
                      .......................................................:lunapic 130165696578242 5:
                       
                      • Like Like x 1
                      • Funny Funny x 1
                      • shiney

                        shiney President, Grumpy Old Men's Club Staff Member

                        Joined:
                        Jul 3, 2006
                        Messages:
                        64,840
                        Gender:
                        Male
                        Occupation:
                        Retired - Last Century!!!
                        Location:
                        Herts/Essex border. Zone 8b
                        Ratings:
                        +126,964
                        I'm going to a seminar today on 'preparing businesses for BREXIT'. I Brexited from business 18 years ago but am still nosey about what they recommend. I don't really expect to have much (or anything) to report back. :dunno:
                         
                        • Like Like x 1
                        • Agree Agree x 1
                        • Loofah

                          Loofah Admin Staff Member

                          Joined:
                          Feb 20, 2008
                          Messages:
                          14,617
                          Gender:
                          Male
                          Location:
                          Guildford
                          Ratings:
                          +25,633
                          It's difficult to prepare for anything when there's no actual scenario as most likely. You have plenty of theoretical outcomes yet you cannot pour indefinite resource into accounting for each one. A business takes a best guess at this point based on gut feeling and the scaremongering press releases and bumf sent through the post.
                          A few things are likely, although not certain, supply chains from the continent will take a short term hammering, markets will dip, but it will all level out once again after the change is in action and people slowly adapt.
                          Best preparation is to expect short term pain, to look for opportunity within that time and to show resilience.
                           
                          • Like Like x 4
                          • Agree Agree x 3
                          • shiney

                            shiney President, Grumpy Old Men's Club Staff Member

                            Joined:
                            Jul 3, 2006
                            Messages:
                            64,840
                            Gender:
                            Male
                            Occupation:
                            Retired - Last Century!!!
                            Location:
                            Herts/Essex border. Zone 8b
                            Ratings:
                            +126,964
                            It was an interesting meeting and well presented. A solicitor that specialises in businesses did the presentation and listed all the things that a business should look out for, what pitfalls there could be depending on how hard a Brexit it would be and what opportunities can be grasped.

                            She di an interesting poll at the start of the presentation asking who voted Remain and about 80% of the people put their hands up. She then asked another question. If you had the choice to vote again, who would vote Remain? Only 40% put their hands up.

                            During discussion later on some of the ones that changed said that they had got annoyed by the EU negotiators but, I think, most of those that had changed were ones who had changed their business plans and were doing much better. I was surprised by how many had moved a largish amount of their business from the EU to non EU countries. This was both purchasing and selling.

                            The other reason they had done well was because of the drop in the rate of exchange and some had gone over to dealing in dollars.

                            Very interesting - but I expect that the ones that turned up we're the more go ahead businessmen.
                             
                            • Informative Informative x 5
                            • Like Like x 1
                            • shiney

                              shiney President, Grumpy Old Men's Club Staff Member

                              Joined:
                              Jul 3, 2006
                              Messages:
                              64,840
                              Gender:
                              Male
                              Occupation:
                              Retired - Last Century!!!
                              Location:
                              Herts/Essex border. Zone 8b
                              Ratings:
                              +126,964
                              There was a lot of discussion and some of them were already stockpiling just in case there was a delay in getting things organised afterwards.

                              One enterprising person had bought a very large warehouse, was dividing it up and renting it out to other businesses for their stockpiling. :dbgrtmb:
                               
                              • Informative Informative x 2
                              Loading...
                              Thread Status:
                              Not open for further replies.

                              Share This Page

                              1. This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
                                By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.
                                Dismiss Notice