Brexit - am I stupid or what?

Right,..............but do you drink??

 

I know you asked this of @WeeTam, but I would suggest that your search starts here:

Hundreds detained in violent French riots

Hundreds of 'yellow vest' protesters are detained in Paris | Daily Mail Online

France's 'yellow vests' clash with police in Paris | Reuters

Of course 'they' are not going to admit it - but their actions are the evidence.

I cannot believe that those in power in the EU cannot see what is going on right in front of them - they have pushed people WAY too far, financially, and Stevie Wonder could see that people have had enough of cut after cut to their public services whilst their wallets are quite literally being raped in taxation, the rich just keep on getting richer and the poor can basically piss off. Only, the poor are now rebelling, and the establishment in the EU are quietly crapping themselves.

Hyperbolic and emotive it may be, but it is quite reasonable to arrive at that conclusion; the EU currently, to an outsider like me, seems to be France and Germany having a massive love-in, and they are all but calling the shots, while the remaining 25 countries are only going along for the ride.

If I may say so, you clearly have quite a brilliant mind - I, on the other hand am little more than dim-wit scum, but what I can offer you is a perspective of those disgruntled people on the street, and in short they are fed up of paying through the nose, and not seeing anything done that benefits them.

 

No, in the real world, Simon, they can't. The EU has, and is, been holding a pistol of economic blackmail and threat of economic ruin to the head of member countries unhappy with the EU. You have been using the word "binary" on occasions but you've also been discussing and thinking in binary terms i.e: you've been using the terms of the EU Political Statements of policies as though they are exactly what is being practiced and happening, while also believing the EU is a fair, democratic body that uses the rules etc exactly as they have been agreed by members but, like all political animals, it does not. All the rules and regulations are idealistic, intellectual, theories but not practiced. If the EU has threatened Italy and Greece with financial ruin and chaos, which they have, should they hold a referendum then the option for Euro currency countries is not there and you can are using the word "could" to justify your belief that the EU is not capable to using financial blackmail on countries who are unhappy with the EU.
Don't use theoretical language and thinking, Simon, when talking about real political abuse, threats and blackmail being practiced in public by an unelected Organisation on it's own members as it does no justice to the views you have already expressed in this thread.

 

You and I have only argued the once, FC, and have remained staunched friends but that assessment of yourself is completely untrue and we are in danger of arguing again.
Simon, FC has as everyone on the Forum knows has only just survived a near death illness this year. He is a highly skilled, extremely intelligent IT person, full of courage, passion, with a brilliantly incisive mind sometimes disguised by using blunt language with that passion I mentioned. He is one of the few people that if I were to call him "Sir" I would not spell it "Cur".

 

No, I know that, Simon. My comment was directed not at you, but at FC who description of himself was the exact opposite of what he actually is and I was just making you aware of that.

 

Nay, dear fellow - I am a realist, and I know my education level and my background, and I will always be that working class scum (and that does not bother me); I am blunt.... comes with the territory of being a Scotsman, we are born with grumpy faces and grumpy voices, even when we are not in the least bit grumpy. Oh, and a second nay - we didn't argue, we merely debated - - but I wholly agree that we remain and always will remain staunch friends; I would go as far as to class you as extended family, but you know that already.

Indeed @SimonZ, you did not infer, nor did I take from your posts that I was scum - I made that inference and I stand by it. As I say, you are clearly a highly intelligent person with a brilliant mind, and whilst I do not necessarily agree with everything you have posted, I wholly respect your point of view.

I am a member of a couple of other forums (much less used than this one admittedly, as this is my spiritual home), but I can assure you that a thread like this on those forums would not have lived as long as this one has - - and as you have noticed, we may have our differences, but we discuss them like adults and we remain friends throughout. There are a few people on this thread where my views have differed quite strongly - @longk is only one example, but I can assure you that should he ever find himself in any sort of position where I could come to his aid or defence, I would be there in a heartbeat, and the same applies to all others here including your good-self.

This subject is clearly too hard for the elected leaders of the world to grapple with, so every single person that has posted in this thread should be proud - proud that we have contributed, discussed, debated and done so in a civil fashion. Speaks volumes to me about the type of people we have as members.

 

I agree, Simon. What I was trying to point out that you seemed to be saying that although, in reality, member countries are being threatened with financial ruin should they try to have a referendum to stay or leave the EU, it is acceptable that a country could only leave the EU in theory but not in reality.

 

Speak for yourself