Brexit -am I stupid or what

I agree it's not happening. Democracy isn't perfect by any means. But I'd rather have it than the alternative.

This whole thing was doomed from the start. Cameron started it in a fit of hubris and irritation, never thinking Leave would win. So didn't plan for when they did. Then he ran away and left the rest of his party to clean up the mess.

May got in with quite a strong majority and in a fit of hubris called an unnecessary GE which left the balance of power in the hands of a bunch of religious fanatics in Norn which meant the Irish backstop became a massive problem when no-one had even thought about it before. So it's no surprise the whole issue is a complete and utter mess. This is not your normal mandate. This is chaos.

 

I also notice there is a thread called 'Positive Brexit News'.

There hasn't been a post on it for nearly 3 years.......

 

Could someone point out to me what exactly is so disastrous about the deal that May has proposed along with the EU.

Dont mention the "back stop" though, I'm totally fed up with hearing how N Ireland or that S. Ireland PM can cause such a problem.

I heard that a recent poll said that most of the people in N Ireland would prefer a hard border in the Irish sea rather than between North and South.
Lets put that to a referendum?

To me that means the problem is solved.

But then maybe I look at things too simply.
Maybe I dont look for problems, just solutions.

 

Hi @pete , just on one point...... neither the N.I. or tthe S. I ( the country ) people have any problem with the backstop. Once again it is minority party MP's ( mainly the DUP ) piping up.

I don't see a border in the Irish sea ever working. Think of it this way...... how many seaside resorts/ports are there from, let's say from Ayr all the way down to St Ives in Cornwall, including the whole of the Welsh coast, and each one would have to have a border control.

 

As I get it the back stop is being so brought to the fore by the EU because it is what S. Ireland want, and some people in N. Ireland.

You only have border controls at major ports, the south coast of England butts onto France but we dont have border controls in Hastings for example, that just doesn't happen.
Only the main ports would have border controls.

 

Pete, as to your point about the south coast, that is because at the moment both the UK and France are part of the EU.

Let's see what happens in a few years time when we're out and we're getting refugees and people smuggling etc coming across the channel and from the Island of Ireland.

Look what's happened in Greece and Italy and others and also in and around Calais.

Also don't forget a major part of customs is to collect taxes etc. Remember the old booze/tobacco runs that used to happen across the channel. What would stop people having boats and smuggling goods ( or people ) into say Aberystwyth, Tenby or Bude ? None of these ( and many others ) are major ports but all have harbours.

 

Yeah it goes on all the time, smuggling people and goods, nothing new and we are in the EU at the moment, illegals land every day around the coast here, lorry drivers bring them in every day and have been for years.
They come across the channel in small boats and call the coast guard as soon as they reach British waters, then wait to get picked up, then they are safe, unlikely to be deported.
They know we are a soft touch.

But that has absolutely nothing to do with whether we belong to the EU or not, they will still come, like they always have.
I doubt S. Ireland would let them in, unlike France that just moves them on to Calais.

It would be nothing new.

 

How time flies. Just think about it. Three years ago the British public declared it wanted to leave the EU. Basically we wanted our once great country back. That was three years ago. I often wondered what it was like running on a treadmill, I am now getting the picture, all that effort and I/WE are still standing on the same spot. So what happens if when the PM meets the gatherings and asks for extra time? How do you say '**%++=' off in french or german. The EU have already said, No more negotiations.

 

Indeed they have, Mike.
I find it shameful that in nearly 3 years, our government haven't delivered on what they promised. The brexit they advertised looks nothing like what we are being offered.
Taking the same deal to parliament again ( 3rd time ) is insulting.

The people aren't allowed to change their mind but the parliament are allowed, and indeed, being bullied into voting for her deal! ( don't get me started on the whips intervening yesterday)

 

The EU left a tiny amount of leeway for us to save a bit of dignity - that is to cancel brexit. No ground is lost or gained so, in my opinion, we should take it. To leave at this point would be a piric victory at best.

When I was 11 years old, I read a very profound book called The Art of War by Sun Tzu (you can find it online here ). This is essentially a manual on how to wage war on another kingdom in ancient times but contains many principles which can be applied to various modern disciplines such as sport, business and politics.

A few years later, I was lucky enough to watch all episodes of Yes, Minister and Yes, Prime Minister long before it ever appeared on youtube.

Familiarity with the book and with the TV series are my qualifications for making the judgement of cancelling brexit.

Btw, I subscribe to the idea of staying in Europe so that we can divide and conquer as explained by Sir Humphrey Appleby regarding the view of the Foreign Office towards the EEC.

 

Remain in the EU must be an option if there is to be another referendum. We were lied to by Brexiter politicians. There was no plan on how to leave, not “even a sketch of an idea” of how to leave, as has been articulated. I blame Cameron. He brought this on by being unable to control the right wing of his own party.

Corbyn isn’t much better though This is the biggest issue to face this country in 70 years and he’s sitting on the fence playing political games. Just over half of voters voted to leave. I believe polls now show a larger majority wanting to remain, now that we have a much better idea of what it really means.