Brexit -am I stupid or what

Discussion in 'Off-Topic Discussion' started by wiseowl, Dec 10, 2018.

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  1. Verdun

    Verdun Passionate gardener

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    What does it say about our MP’s that they, apparently, will vote for her deal if she steps down. What???
    So not about “principle” or “what is best for the country” etc??? What a phoney bunch our MP’s are:noidea::noidea::noidea:
     
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    • Snorky85

      Snorky85 Total Gardener

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      Spot on @Verdun , whether they are leave or remain the one thing we know about MPs is that they are full of self interest.
       
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      • anth85

        anth85 Gardener

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        I think that depends on who your MP is. Mine is very much for a peoples vote but the constituency voted leave which probably puts her at risk, but she believes (as do I) that it is for the good of the country that we need a final say.
         
      • lolimac

        lolimac Total Gardener

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        Completely agree @Verdun .What a bloody disgrace.
         
      • Jimcub

        Jimcub Gardener

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        The country voted for out so out we go, when the government gets involved it boils down to cat fighting amongst themselves.
        I could bangs heads when I see what they do, listening to the House of Commons I feel ashamed for our country when’s it’s filmed live, what a bunch of kids ( well kids could do better really ).
         
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        • Loofah

          Loofah Admin Staff Member

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          While I agree wholeheartedly, this was more to ensure TM would not be around for what comes next. There's no good option at this point in any event.
           
        • anth85

          anth85 Gardener

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          there is the two good options, one 5 million have petitioned for and one over a million have protested for :please:
           
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          • Fat Controller

            Fat Controller 'Cuddly' Scottish Admin! Staff Member

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            Well, the first of your two suggested options falls flat by around 12.5 million and wasn't conducted as a vote through the prescribed channels. The latter, I am not sure which one you refer to.
             
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            • anth85

              anth85 Gardener

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              True. But that’s apples to oranges. Compared to the biggest leave petition which is at around 250k, even if a percentage is bogus it would still be massively more for revoking, shows the shift in public opinion.

              The massive protest march in London yesterday for a vote on the final deal?
               
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              • KFF

                KFF Total Gardener

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                Petitions mean nothing. Votes do....

                As I've said on this thread before ( at least here in the midlands ) more people would now vote leave than before. So, what's the point ?
                 
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                • Fat Controller

                  Fat Controller 'Cuddly' Scottish Admin! Staff Member

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                  Leave don't need to petition, as Leave was the decided outcome of the vote back in 2016. Any alleged shift in public opinion is merely that - alleged, and don't forget that a considerable amount of the media is very pro-EU (especially the BBC!), so there is considerable bias to their reporting. Furthermore, Remain have had over two years of campaigning to attempt to brow-beat everyone into their way of thinking. No other political campaign would be allowed to campaign so solidly, with free media, for such a long time.

                  A colleague of mine pondered the other week that the majority of people who take part in polls and vox-pops etc are extroverts, and therefore we are more likely to hear them voice their feelings and views outside of the conventional voting arena. Conversely, introverts are not likely to say anything, but are the ones who will go and vote on the day that it counts, and he believes that this is why polls cannot be relied upon. To be fair, I can agree with his thinking - let's face it, how many people when polled would have said Donald Trump would get elected? But he did.

                  Those protesting have every right to do so, however the fact remains that were the MP's choose to overturn the public's decision, and disregard the democratic wishes of the majority of the electorate, then there would be hell to pay - that, in my eyes, would be the end of democracy in this country, and I think there would be significant erosion to the constructs of our society.
                   
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                  • anth85

                    anth85 Gardener

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                    That maybe the case around you, but it may not be the case around the rest of the country. But the point is moot because it would be as rediculous now as it was in 2016 to ask that question. Take the Scottish independence vote as an example. The SNP produced a 600+ page document on how separation would happen, what would happen afterwards, it was all set out. The EU vote was a generic stay/go, there was no such document, there was no plan of any sorts whatsoever, one on the leave side had to implement what they were promising, therefore they could promise anything. ‘Easiest trade deal ever’ for example.

                    So what the protest march was actually about and what I believe is the correct way forward is to give us a vote on the final deal, whatever that maybe. At least then we have clear facts. That would remove so much animosity between the sides that the lies, overspending, government leaflet has brought.

                    If the deal is what people want then that’s what we’ll do. If not we’ll remain on our current terms
                    (Before anyone says about no deal, read the withdrawal agreement it’s black and white that we can’t leave if it requires a hard border in Ireland, which no deal would)
                     
                  • Loofah

                    Loofah Admin Staff Member

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                    Point is, no-one ACTUALLY knows and a march, a petition anything other than official actions count. We know the outcome of the referendum regardless of how mis-judged, nonsensically hashed it was which makes me very sad that the 'leaders' could be so hopelessly incompetent but there it is.
                    Should the people have the final say? Easy to argue for it but we appointed through our votes to let parliament run the country and that's the way it is. But in no way should the option to stay in the EU be a part of that choice.
                     
                  • anth85

                    anth85 Gardener

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                    So you're saying a 'mis-judged, nonsensical' vote should inflict on us the worst economic decision we have taken in a generation and no one should be allowed to change their mind now they know the facts? Remain should absolutely be a choice.
                     
                  • Loofah

                    Loofah Admin Staff Member

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                    They're only my words and opinion of the referendum and it's conduct. Without a solid course of action I don't think it should have been held at all! Also, I don't believe anyone 'knows the facts', I believe people think they know the facts and populist opinion is getting hyped
                     
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