Brexit -am I stupid or what

I take it that you're implying that the Referendum was not democratic because one side lied about the pro's and con's of leaving the EU and your stance is that it was the BREXITEERS that lied before the Referendum and not the Remainers?
I don't think there are many people on either side who would believe that to be plausible, longk. Campaign Fear which was aimed at ampliflying
the Remainers dire warnings of the UK, was started well before the Referendum, not being a Nation capable of making National security problems, making it's own trading decisions etc, and that without the EU the UK would fall into financial ruin, political disaster,and every British person would be starving, our medical NHS system, envied by the world, would collapse, the Black Death plague would sweep the UK, and that we're too weak politically, financially, and have lost the ability to think for ourselves and......well, you get the idea, none of which, according to your idea of democracy thinking is not blatant scaremongering, distortion of the truth and facts. You seem to be implying that it would only have been a democratic referendum if the Remainers had won
Did the BREXITEERS do the same as the Remainers? Of course they do/did
but what did they have to offer regarding alarmist material during their pre-referendum campaign. ? Let's think, well, there was gaining control of our own legislation, retaining our financial independence and financial decisions globally, because we have retained the £Sterling, being able to trade with other countries than the EU, at the moment, tells us we can't, to set our own political, legal, trading standards. Retaining our own currency has meant that the EU has not, much to their annoyance, been able to trap the UK into a Euro debt as it has done with the likes of Italy, Greece, Portugal, etc and stop them from leaving. We will also get back control of our borders, Oh, and yes, we will save £13.2 Billion each year, and, if we have to have a No Deal BREXIT, we won't have to pay he £39 Divorce Bill, all that while it was pointed out by the opposing forces that the UK would suffer punishing EU tariffs, and a time of sorting out new trading deals with countries, etc.
To be honest, in my opinion, UK democracy has been abandoned, treated with contempt, disregarded by those who will stop at nothing to make sure we stay in the clutches of the EU, and those MP's and politicial parties who have played their part in that have a lot to answer for.

 

Actually, longk, we pay, annually, to the EU, £13.2 Billion (Euro 14.3 Billion) for the privilege of being told what we can do and can't politically, who we can trade with and who we can't, joining a "Club" whose Budget hasn't been signed off properly by the independent Auditors since 1995 with their view that the books are much more accurate now but even now, and since 1995 has shown "significant errors". What still seems to be left unsaid and conveniently is that it is the openly stated by the EU to become a Federation with it's own Armed Forces run by the unelected EU Bureaucracy diminishing the independence of all the members would be be forced to contributed heavily and without option.

Well, there aren't many Politicians who haven't changed their political views during their careers, Churchill did it by changing Political Parties, as did by my count since WWII several hundred MP's who decided to jump ship to another party.....and that's not adding the number that have dones so since 1995. But you're right about Boris changing his political views, but at least he hasn't changed parties............and he has been acting lately with all the hall marks of a rampant EU fan and supporter due to the delight of the EU unelected official who are planning to put a picture of him on the walls of every office in the EU.............so that they can throw darts at it

 

We know, and hope you do too, that there are no personal attacks here - no matter what goes on in the political world, and whatever our own views are, we can cast them aside and remain friends.

I accept that there is a lot of trade done on a tariff free basis, and that I have absolutely no issue with - that, is in fact what we joined initially. A trading organisation does not need a flag, it does not need an anthem, does not need control over the laws in member countries, does not need to fine member countries for not meeting arbitrary standards that do not apply in any way to goods being traded, does not need an army, and does not need to be taking a cut on VAT (or indeed fixing the rate thereof). The likes of Canada and Japan have free trade agreements with the EU without charge, so why can't we?

As for all the bull that comes out about us not getting this or that as a result of Brexit - bear in mind that the people that are allegedly going to withhold these things from us are the very people that we are supposed to believe are our friends and are all about humanity and looking after people.....

Oh, and for the record - Panasonic moving to the EU, that is just an excuse.... they have threatened to do so at least twice that I know of in the past 30 years, and it ultimately comes down to logistics and product harmonisation for them; this is part of the reason that the Technics brand quietly disappeared.

 

Since 11pm, 29 March 2019, the UK has paid the EU £5,079,461,190.83. This could've paid for 56 new hospitals, 220,846 nurses, 192,761 policemen, or even the repair of 95,838,890 potholes. A single pile of what we've paid in £20 notes would be 17.83 miles tall.

 

I like statistics because I can make them do almost anything and they never argue with me!

 

Still pays for a lot of nurses though

 

Some MP - 'What's 1+1?'
'What do you want it to be? - An accountant...

As far as I see, the truth that people want from democracy or the Brexit campaign is nonexistent and largely irrelevant. It's who can make a compelling argument that sounds true that will win out.

Also, it looks like Bercow is going down fighting... Isn't the Speaker supposed to be impartial?