Brexit -am I stupid or what

To be honest @Freddy, I am probably as guilty as anyone, mostly borne out of strong feelings about the entire subject, and sadly I think that is at the root of a lot of things around Brexit (and I am talking about nationally and even internationally) - strong feelings on both sides have understandably spilled out in various discussions, and many people have felt aggrieved at the other "side's" stance.
In fairness to every single person that has taken part in this thread, whilst there have been differing opinions and disagreements, it has not descended into the complete savagery that I have actually seen elsewhere. I would also like to think, and hope, that beside all of this you know that it is all just politics and there is absolutely no ill feelings person to person. I am nigh on certain that anyone on this thread would do anything for any of the others if they were in need, without a second thought about political discussions past - - for sure, you'd get the shirt of my back if you needed it, and I wouldn't hesitate to do the same for anyone else here.

Try not to lose heart (not easy, I know), as we simply do not know what is around the next corner.

 

You'd need to get drunk if I start singing.

 

I agree - in my opinion, both ex-pats and EU citizens living here have been let down badly by the political classes on this subject. Whilst I understand that there are a lot of complexities to it, the principles of the first part of the proceedings should have been fairly simple - ex-pats should not see their situation change, and any accrued healthcare costs, pension etc would be paid for by the UK (even if by invoice) and likewise any EU citizens already here should be afforded exactly the same as they have now, regardless as to how the deal (or no deal) plays out.

 

The flipside of no collateral damage is the collateral damage that has been done to Britain over a number of years and decades - indeed, you hit the nail right on the head by saying that you could not afford to buy or rent here, because that has become the case for just about everyone here. I am 43 now, and have absolutely no chance of ever getting a mortgage and am to a large degree 'locked' into living where I do as to move elsewhere would either see my rent rise, or if I moved to an area with lower rent my commuting costs would soar. Essentially, we are collateral damage of the vast and huge immigration that Britain has seen, and a lot of that is because Mrs Merkel opened Europe's back door and let just about anyone in whilst having our bank balance drained to support a number of other countries.

However, as I said earlier, I agree that the whole thing has been handled very badly indeed, and the best option in my book would have been for the starting point to be absolutely clear that we are leaving the EU, we want to do a trade deal, we don't want to be unreasonable about things but we also won't take any nonsense in terms of forced political alignment etc. Had Theresa May and her crew really, honestly, set out to do what they said they were going to do we could have been pretty much sorted by now and it could all have been done by signing a number of agreements one at a time - start with the human factors, and both 'sides' guarantee that no matter what the outcome people will be looked after or see no reduction in their services/rights and worst case the home country will pay upon invoice for all costs incurred. Then, and only then, move onto the next stage.

We have all been badly let down by politicians all over, and if nothing else Brexit has crystallised just how bad our political and elite classes really are. I sincerely hope that we get a LOT of new blood in from the pending elections, but I fear we have a very, very long road still to go to get the reform that is truly needed.

 

Not many of us around!

 

It's OK, I will try and do my bit to make up for the drinks you are not having - doing my bit to stabilise the drinks industry you understand....

 

I applaud your conscientiousness and dedication. I hope it doesn't put too much stress on you.

 

Can I have two if I vote for him twice?