Car problems due to lockdown

Discussion in 'Off-Topic Discussion' started by JWK, Apr 6, 2020.

  1. JWK

    JWK Gardener Staff Member

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    @Kristen great post, very informative. We had a thread about electric cars in your absence so your comments would have been very helpful then.

    I did have an ev myself until lockdown, we decided it wasn't worth keeping just to sit on the drive so the lease company came and took it back. It was a very good experience for me to run a pure ev, the car I had BMW i3 had limited range about 100 miles so only useful for commuting and shopping. We needed a dinosaur powered car for longer trips. My next car will be from the current flock of new evs with 300+ mile range and we will then have just one.
     
  2. Fat Controller

    Fat Controller 'Cuddly' Scottish Admin! Staff Member

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    Ctek MXS5.0 smart charger and a comfort lead (with an extension lead if required) should be just the ticket to keep the batteries on most cars happy, and once the comfort lead is fitted to the car (5 minute job at most, and that includes finding the spanners!), they are just a plug and play set up.

    Some very recent research of my own here..... Cars with DPF's will generally want to regenerate every 500-600 miles (depends greatly on the cars, with Nissan, Jaguars, Land Rovers/Range Rovers being amongst the worst, and Kias, Hyundais being among the best); for the regeneration to take place, contrary to popular belief, it is not a 'damn good thrashing' that needs to take place but more or less steady conditions where certain criteria are true (engine up to operating temperature, car not stationary and running at between 35 and 75 mph at commencement of cycle, and fuel level above a prescribed minimum) - - there are tons of parameters, but those are the most important. Once a regen has started, it is preferred that the car maintains a steady-ish constant speed, however it is actually the engine revs that are the key with the sweet spot being somewhere between 1100 and 2200 rpm and it is this that means you can achieve a regen even on fairly local roads.

    The regen itself takes around 20 minutes depending on particulate load, with the downside being that it is often very difficult to detect when the car is doing one. There are a couple of giveaways that seem to be true across the board, with the first being that the stop/start system will not operate, and the other being that at idle (stopped at traffic lights etc) there is a very, very slight engine vibration that can be felt (VW/Audi group cars can actually properly shake!). If you have these things happening and/or notice that the car feels a bit 'flat' under acceleration, then there is a good chance a regen is taking place. If possible, do not switch off the engine, instead go for a short drive and try to keep the revs fairly constant if you can - nice and gentle is the key.

    Whatever you do, DO NOT stop on any grass verges or dry open ground such as picnic spots or even laybys as the exhaust gets hot with a capital F during a regen, and it has been known for combustible materials under the car to catch light.
     
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    • HarryS

      HarryS Eternally Optimistic Gardener

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      Typically as most are not using our cars petrol price has dropped to around £1 a litre ! :gaah:
       
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      • Kristen

        Kristen Under gardener

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        :)

        There aren't any 300+ mile EVs (well, "just over" maybe for the MS Raven, and the Korean ones are very frugal, but basically not-quite-yet IMHO)

        All a bit chicken and egg, but sufficient Early Adopters to get manufacturing up to economy-of-scale, battery research to get price-per-kWh down, and charging infrastructure rolled out (although that has been very disappointing to date), so Affordable and Good Range won't be long coming now. My replacement (basically "same model again") after 3.5 years was 20% cheaper and 20-30% more efficient/range.

        The WLTP "range" test is, to my mind, useless. Its a combined cycle test (so some motorway, some town, etc.) and on max range journeys I don't drive like that, I am on Motorway at 80 MPH hour after hour. So the only figure that matters is how far you can go at 80 MPH, and that basically is not 300 miles (yeah, sweeping statement, one or two can just about do that)

        For anyone interested in "would I get there in an EV" have a look at A Better Route Planner. Choose the Make/Model of car, and the Journey (and whether it is Summer or Winter etc. if you like) and see how long the charging would be. If you are a frequent long journey driver I expect you will find it unacceptable for all bar Tesla cars ...

        A Better Routeplanner

        The WLTP test is very helpful for ownership cost comparison, same as MPG tests for Fossil Fuel cars. But the cost of EV driving is so low, and in combination with the cars costing a lot of money, its not very relevant. My driving cost (using cheap Off Peak overnight charging) is about 2p a mile. That's about £600 a year for the 30,000 miles that my car does ... and 50% of that is charged at work "for free", but TBH that saving of £300 a year on fuel isn't going to figure hugely in the decision, and a car that is 3p a mile is unlikely to be a showstopper compared to a 2p a mile model, given that fossil fuel is probably 10 - 15p a mile.

        The other thing that is different is plugging in when you get home such that you leave home every morning with a full tank of fuel. People who don't have off-road parking are going to find EV ownership much harder, until we have chargers on each lamppost/similar. I now hate with a vengeance smelly, wet, forecourts. And the pump handles are reputedly one of the worse places for picking up other people's bugs ...

        We had two VW BlueMotion (basically the most frugal / Eco version) Golfs (one after the other). When Dieselgate blew up I was livid; driving around in a VW seemingly advertising that I was OK with VW's Lying Cheating behaviour. I wasn't. Coupled with VW paying $25B in fines in USA but saying they have no case to answer in EU ...

        So 4.5 years ago I cast around for an Eco vehicle as a replacement and was pleasantly surprised to find that 200+ mile range EV was possible (and a bit annoyed that I hadn't figured that out before buying the final VW ...). The fact that it was 3 or 4 times the price of the VW Golf took a bit of teeth-sucking ...

        We've had sports cars in the past - including a Caterham kit thingie with a 300bph V8 in it for all the quality noise, and 3.x second 0-60 etc. effects, and coming out of a T-junction on full opposite lock ;) ... I would have said, back then, that those things were important to me. Eco was important, but for 1,000 or so "recreational" miles a year I wasn't too worried about that, compared to the 30,000 miles that we drove as frugally as we reasonably could. As it turns out I kept the Caterham for 3 years after getting the EV and I never drove it once. Not a single mile.

        I suppose I could afford a Ferrari, and I love the sound etc etc, but I never have done 'coz it would just sit around for High Days and Holidays. And the few Wannabee-Supercars I have owned were totally impractical, tiring to drive long distance, and more in the service centre than my driveway ...

        So ... how did the change to EV go? Silent of course. I absolutely did not miss the sound at all. And I am no longer annoying my neighbours "sharing my love of engine sound" with them. It is SO much more relaxing driving, and one of the reasons is the lack of noise drumming on and on the whole time.

        And performance? Forget 3.x seconds, that was 2.x - it felt just like rollercoaster acceleration when I put my foot down. Even the piddly small "cooking version" one we now have as 2nd vehicle is 4.5s, and there is an upgrade for £2,000 (I think) that knocks 0.5s off that. You try reducing the 0-60 on a Fossil Fuel car by 0.5s for a couple of £grand :) And you certainly won't be able to do that with flash-of-credit-card and an over-the-air software update :)

        So Ferrari performance (in fact there wasn't a Ferrari, Lambo etc. that could beat me away from the lights), much less tiring to drive that previous cars, coupled with all sorts of features to reduce the driver workload further. And acres of space for luggage ... no engine out front, bigger deeper boot because no transmission junk on the back axle, and no transmission tunnel front-to-back either. And no maintenance either. I had it serviced about every 15 months, so say 40K mile interval, but there wasn't anything to do - no spark plugs, oil, parts rubbing on parts. When did you last have anything with an electric motor fail? They just run and run. And Brake Pads last over 100,000 miles as most slowing is done with Regen. And safe too. No engine out front wanting to come into the passenger compartment in a crash, and lots of rigidity from the battery pack all along the floor, which also makes for a very low centre of gravity (in a rollover situation). So basically an infinitely better solution than Internal Combustion Engine.

        Charging infrastructure is a different story (and only Tesla have good infrastructure). But that only matters if you drive out of range, for anyone driving within range of home charging its moot. I did, but actually I spent exactly as long sitting charging as I had done previously filling up on forecourts ... about 8 hours a year all told. Just I did it once or twice a month rather than at least once a week. Stopping for 20-30 minutes is different to 5-10 minutes for Petrol, but you don't stand-and-pump and then queue-to-pay so you can get on with something else. I did emails, which I would only have had to do the moment I got home, so it was entirely time neutral for me. But I could have taken a stroll or added a Currant Bun to my waist line! But on long journeys stopping for 30 minutes every couple of hours make the journey longer, but the driver is more rested. We have driven to the Alps skiing and apart from more planning required it wasn't any hassle at all. And actually having to stop for 30 minutes, rather than just swap-drivers-and-carry-on, meant I arrived much more relaxed

        I ain't going back, EV driving is a way way more preferable to Internal Combustion. And that's before any Eco considerations.
         
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          Last edited: Apr 9, 2020
        • JWK

          JWK Gardener Staff Member

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          That is very similar to what I have now without the comfort leads, so I am sorted thanks.

          Excellent post FC, very comprehensive. I am sure others on here will benefit from your knowledge thanks!
           
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          • HarryS

            HarryS Eternally Optimistic Gardener

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            Cheers FC, that does clear up a lot of questions I had on DPFs. Most of the info I had was a bit fuzzy to say the least.
             
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            • JWK

              JWK Gardener Staff Member

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              To begin with I was just plugging mine in when it got low, until one day I was down to 20% and the 13amp home charging cable failed. It's not like you can pop to the nearest filling station with a battery and bring back some volts. Luckily I had just enough juice to make the one way trip to my office where the 7kw chargers and my other working type 2 cable got me topped up. From then onwards I charged it every time I could. Once into that routine I had less anxiety.

              Agree on that, mine was rated at 140 WLTP but I never got anywhere near that, Then in the winter it got much worse, down to 100 mile range. But it's the same with conventional cars, the manufacturers quoted mpg figures are grossly inflated in the real world.

              Whilst mine was just middling for an EV it was more than quick enough, when I switched back to my wife's diesel car at weekends I kept feeling to see if the handbrake was on, even though both cars had similar 0-60 times on paper it was/is terribly sluggish.

              Yes that is the big issue right now. My lease deal came with 'free' electricity on the Polar plus network, but in 6 months I only ever topped up for free twice. The closest on street charger is one mile from home but someone with a Renault Zoe uses it as their personal parking space, it was never available. The council have other bays but crazily allow conventional powered cars to park in there blocking any chance of an EV using them. So within my home town it was nearly impossible. Only Waitrose had the free chargers but they were slow and hardly worth the bother even for an hours shop. Hopefully the public network will expand rapidly to match what Tesla has done.

              I estimated my fuel costs were one eighth of a conventional car, mostly charging at home for about 11p/kw. My monthly commuting fuel bill fell from £160 (petrol) to £20 (electric), I liked that.
               
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              • Mike Allen

                Mike Allen Total Gardener

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                I have to admit, in past times I could , shall we say hold my own with motor talk. Now. Much of it is mumbo jumbo.

                Just before I forget. Relating back to how this thread began. As many cars are standing idle due to the lockdown. 'Lockdown' Makes it sound as if we are all guests of HM in one of her secure institutions.

                Anyway.Having learned the hard way. Here I park in a marked disabled bay. A few years back the council introduced marked bays and parking half on/off the kerb. Some boroughs lowered the ker. My borough didn't, so care is called for when mounting the kerb. Now my hard bit of learning. A couple of MOT's ago. I put the car in for it's MOT. Giving it my usual once over. Even I suspected the front O/S tyre. Loads of tread, it was only about 18 months old. However the side-wall. That looked as though it had come through WW2. Soon the phone rang. It was Ancasters. The dodgy tyre had been noticed. Yes please, change it.

                This is perhaps something that escapes our notice. Uneven parking such as mentioned, can and does put the tyres under great stress. So. Please constantly check. Also the tyre pressures, temperature changes also can raise of lower tyre pressures. If you do a lot of mileage and especially you tend to toe it at times. Seriously give a thought to fitting Tyron bands to your wheels. Many caravan owners fit these to the van wheels. Police fast respnce cars are fitted with them. It is simply a band that is fitted around the wheel rim that prevents the tyre from coming off in case of a blow out.
                At the same times as a quick start up. Test the wipers etc as well.
                 
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                • JWK

                  JWK Gardener Staff Member

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                  Hi @Mike Allen

                  I am a real Mini fan, had several including the modern BMW version. Some models come with 'run-flats' which are a similar idea. In case of a blow out the tyre stays on the rim.

                  My old classic Bristol 603 was fitted with Avon safety wheels which had been demonstrated to cope with a 140mph blowout (Not by me! Those of a certain age will remember the charismatic ex racing driver Tony Crook who owned the Bristol car marque). Whenever I needed a new tyres on my Bristol it always flummoxed the fitters, boy were they difficult to get off - being designed to stop the tyre coming off the wheel they could only be removed carefully if you knew what you were doing - it cost me more in labour than rubber to replace and that was a few years ago.


                  Good tip about tyre pressures - another one to watch during lockdown.
                   
                • JWK

                  JWK Gardener Staff Member

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                  Photos of my old Bristol, this was a long time ago my daughter is in her late 30s now :)

                  20141004-CCF04102014_00007.jpg

                  I had a Dolly Sprint at the same time:
                  20141004-Montego Bristol Triumph #3.jpg
                   
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                  • HarryS

                    HarryS Eternally Optimistic Gardener

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                    A Bristol and a Dolmite sprint with the little yellow badge ! I could only dream of them driving around in my Sunbeam Stiletto.
                    As you are a Mini fan do you ever watch "Bangers and Cash" ( Yesterday Channel - UKTV ) It's about a classic auction site in Yorkshire. They sold a Mini Cooper 1275 original , well it was just rust held together with paint. It could only be transported on a pallet as it would not roll. It sold for £18000 :hate-shocked:
                    We have a Cooper convertible sidewalk, selling it on to family after the crisis as Jan only does about 700miles a year in it.
                     
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                    • Kristen

                      Kristen Under gardener

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                      My father had one of those, I remember thinking what fun it was (when he drove). He'd been a racing driver, back-in-the-day, Brooklands and all that jazz :) and his driving was always impeccable, even when he was pressing on :)

                      He had a Triumph 2.5 PI too - Petrol Injection must have been a new thing at the time? I remember the adverts "There's No Carb like No Carb" :)

                      There are some green tariffs that have a 5p / kWh price for 4 hours overnight :) For non EV folk who might be interested : as a general rule of thumb EVs drive 3 - 4 miles on one Unit (kWh) of Leccy. In Winter a bit less on long journeys and a lot less on short ones (no waste heat to heat car, and battery needs heating as well to make the chemistry "efficient", but that can be done on Shore Power before setting off (if organised enough!) and once done doesn't then contribute significantly on long journeys)

                      I had a go with ABetterRoutePlanner London to Edinburgh. Google best route is 403 miles M1 to Doncaster and A1 thereafter up the right hand side. EV routes have to go past chargers, so may not be able to use optimal route.

                      Tesla MS Long Range "Raven" using only Tesla's own Supercharger network. Two routes

                      M1 to Rugby then M6 up the left hand side

                      400 miles 6h39m driving + 27 mins one charge (Carnock Richards)

                      or A1 all the way up the right side

                      398 miles 6h45m driving + 23 mins one charge (Scotch Corner)

                      Personally I would stop for at least 30 minutes on a 6+ hour journey :)


                      I tried a Jaguar iPace - which uses regular Public Chargers (locations as fast as Tesla ones are rare)

                      M1 to Doncaster then A1 up the right side

                      410 miles, 7h20m driving (might be having to cruise at reduced speed to "reach" charger?) and two charging stops 49 mins and 46 mins, total 1h34m charging


                      and a BMW i3 with the big 120 Ah battery. I suspect that the charging rate on BMW means it cannot avail itself of the fastest chargers

                      M1 / M6 left side route

                      402 miles, 7h11m driving. 5 charging stops each 30min-ish, total of 2h14m charging.

                      So basically Jagular iPace (Audi eTron and Merc EQC are similar) = 3x as long charging as Tesla, and BMW i3 = 4x as long ...
                       
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                      • Kristen

                        Kristen Under gardener

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                        Good point :)

                        Might be worth moving cars so they aren't parked on the same spot on the tyres for weeks on end?
                         
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                        • Fat Controller

                          Fat Controller 'Cuddly' Scottish Admin! Staff Member

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                          Ahhhh, the Dolomite Sprint!

                          Such memories as a child. My neighbour had one - red with a black vinyl roof, and I absolutely loved that car. I can't have been much more than 8 years old when he had it, and any opportunity I got to go for a run in it (back in the days when just simply going for a run in the car was still a pleasant experience!) I would be there in a heartbeat.

                          He was a mechanic by trade, and a very good one to be fair to him, but often his wife would rush him when he was doing things, which more often than not ended in hilarity for me when he eventually lost the rag with her and told her to bog off. Anyway, one particularly nice morning, there was a knock on our door and it was our neighbours asking if I would like to go for a day out with them down at 'the shore' (we lived reasonably close to a coastline where there was a beach, but also a golf course and a large holiday resort made up of static caravans and chalets, with loads of amusements) - - - well, of course, I jumped at the chance!

                          We had a great day out, and on the way back, Noel was having a bit of fun on the twisties and giving the Dolly a bit of a workout; as we came down a long wooded hill, Noel said "Oh look Hilda, there is somebody's wheel going past us"........ it can't have been more than a second before it dawned on him that we were the only car around, and that the wheel was his! He had the presence of mind to move over to the 'wrong side' of the road as he was slowing down and managed to get just enough of the offside of the car onto the grass verge so that no real damage was done as it came to a stop with no wheel. Wheel recovered, refitted using one nut from each of the other wheels and we were back on our way, albeit with a frosty silence in the car.

                          It transpired that early in the morning before heading off, he had decided to quickly adjust the handbrake or similar, and had whipped the back wheels off to do so; as usual, Hilda was at him to hurry up because she wanted to get the picnic in the car and wanted to get underway, and wanted to do this and that... one wheel had been bolted up properly, but the other must only have been finger tight.
                           
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                          • Fat Controller

                            Fat Controller 'Cuddly' Scottish Admin! Staff Member

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                            Short term, with modern tyres, this won't be an issue - anything over eight weeks, and then it would be a good idea to move the car.
                             
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