Cement mixed into soil?

Discussion in 'Lawns' started by Richatd foran, Sep 19, 2020.

  1. Richatd foran

    Richatd foran Apprentice Gardener

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    Hi all, im new to the forum but looking for some advice. Always had a garden that my self and my wife loved, it was low maintenance and a joy to sit out in, how ever 9 months ago we had our first child so are looking at turfing a large portion of the garden so he has somewhere to play next spring. We have cleared the patio area and have found about a inch thick layer of sand and cement under the slabs
    .

    Our intention was to get somebody in to prep the ground and turf it for us but just this week my hours have been massively cut at work due to the current pandemic. So my question is what would we need to do with the sand and cement. Would we get away with digging it into the soil going the full depth of a garden fork? The area being turfed is approx double the area that's got the sand and cement on it so could try and distribute it as evenly as we could to dilute it down. Or would this just kill the grass and we need to bite the bullet and pay to get rid of it somehow which isn't ideal due to the current financial situation. Thanks in advance for any advice.
     

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  2. Scrungee

    Scrungee Well known for it

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    Do you mean a bed of mortar?

    Slabs bedded on mortar/etc. normally have a bed of stone/hardcore underneath. Were your slabs laid directly onto soil?

    And then there's the question of whether the soil under the slabs is topsoil or subsoil?

    Looking at your image the slabs appear to be 600 x 600mm as one is the same length as 3 x 200mm long brick paviours, so the volume of bedding material is 25 x 0.6 x 0.6 x 0. 25m = approx. 0.25 m3, which is quite a bit.

    Another issue is how the finished level of the lawn will relate to adjacent surface levels after removal of the slabs and bedding material, unless making up levels underneath with topsoil.
     
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      Last edited: Sep 19, 2020
    • JR

      JR Chilled Gardener

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      My choice is to pick axe and shovel it all up and either save it for later hardcore requirements or take it to the tip.
      It's worth preparing the ground properly for a good lawn.
      Put a nice layer of topsoil in there and then you've still got time to use seed to save costs.
       
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      • Scrungee

        Scrungee Well known for it

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        Our tip charges £2.50 for a 20Kg ex-ballast/sand/etc. bag full of rubble. Even with only 50% bulking, that 0.25m3 of mortar bedding would fill 19 bags and cost £47.50 to dispose of (£63 if 100% bulking) + cost of buying rubble bags if required. Due to Coronvirus distantcing rules at my local tip, only a small amount of vehicles are allowed in at a time, and the average queuing/tipping time is about an hour, so probably 2 or 3 trips travelling time + a few hours (or more) at the tip.
         
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          Last edited: Sep 19, 2020
        • JR

          JR Chilled Gardener

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          Cripes, our tip charges nothing but you do need to book a slot.
          If a corner in the garden can be found to stack the rubble, it can come in handy for future projects.
          The choice is yours!
           
        • ricky101

          ricky101 Total Gardener

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          Well those charges sound low, we used to be able to take all rubble etc to our local center for free, now they have stopped all that, allowing only bagged rubble to be collected from our houses. No wonder there is so much fly tipping !
          000085.jpg
          To get back to the original question, its sound like a lot of work and expense, eg labour and a skip really needed to take out the old bad stuff and a bulk delivery of good topsoil.

          As its going to be mainly for the kids, would suggest aritficial grass is the way to go.
          Your existing surfaces, if not too high, would be covered by a layer of sand followed by the 'turf'

          A neighbour had theirs done a few years ago, and iits stood up to their yound kids and dog.
           
        • Graham B

          Graham B Gardener

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          Cement (mortar) needs clearing off. And if it went onto hardcore, then as has been said, you'd need to shift that.

          If it's just sand on top of soil though, it should be easier. I had that in a previous house when I moved slabs as part of my lawn making. What I did, instead of digging the sand in, was to put the sand aside in a pile. Then i levelled out the topsoil, moving stuff from the rest of the area to the ex-slabbed area as needed. And finally I spread the sand over the whole lot and raked it into the surface to create a good sowing tilth for the seed.
           
        • Scrungee

          Scrungee Well known for it

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          Looking closely at the image, it could be a sand bed with the slabs laid on top on mortar dabs.

          Solid mortar bedding is more likely to be found under slabs on vehicle hardstandings, but you never know what some people will do with their DIY.
           
        • shiney

          shiney President, Grumpy Old Men's Club Staff Member

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          Looks to me to possibly be dry mix on hardcore with no mortar dabs (can't really tell) but, if so, then not a good base for grass.

          You need to check what rules your recycling centre has. After reading the above info from other members (never go to the recycling centre myself) I checked online for ours. They don't charge at all for domestic disposal but limit it to "three wheelbarrow loads (one car boot) of soil, hardcore or gypsum-based products" in any 28 day period. If yours is similar then you can get rid of it in stages.

          You would then need to buy in topsoil. :noidea:

          One of our members has recently done this in his garden

           
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          • Scrungee

            Scrungee Well known for it

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            If there were dabs they would have adhered to the underside of the slabs when they were removed.

            A more detailed description of the existing base to the slabs is required, including what's underneath the "sand and cement".
             
            Last edited: Sep 20, 2020
          • shiney

            shiney President, Grumpy Old Men's Club Staff Member

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            Most of them would but they don't always do so.
            P1490546.JPG

            I would also have expected to see some evidence of the dabs by them leaving circles.
             
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