Corona Virus Treatment

Well, you will have to go and 'volunteer' to have it, but without it there are going to be various restrictions - already starting with Qantas saying those who are not vaccinated won't be allowed to fly, employers in Australia are looking for the right to dismiss anyone who refuses and it is not beyond the realms that the restrictions will be increased so that you cannot go into pubs, restaurants or possibly even send your children to school or college without them having the vaccine..... mandatory, by the back door.

 

You'd be counted as an unknown How could you be counted as a "positive or negative" if you hadn't taken the test

You don't have to accept or refuse a test, pete. In Liverpool not everyone was tested and it wasn't compulsory, (as that would take legislation....which would not pass). Some people in Liverpool decided not to take the test as if they'd proved positive they would have been advised to isolate for 14 days and, even with the Government Isolation grant, they couldn't, from their point of view, afford to do that.

Another misinterpretation Tier restrictions were taking place before any effective testing and those, and present tiers, are mainly based on Hospital admissions and deaths.

It leaves us with you running around spreading the Pestilence, pete The Lorry Driver who delivered a Plinth to me yesterday was in his 60's driving around the Country starting in Brighton and driving to Warrington, (a high infection area), then to Preston and then on to the NorthEast. There are thousands of drivers, etc, just like him driving around every day. Unless you brought the UK to a complete standstill, (an impossible task), then we have to depend, perhaps naively, on people obey the rules and basic instructions.

I can't think of any stats that aren't flawed in some way or other and since we are lagging behind with data, by at least a fortnight, from infection to Hospital admission and/or Death, the stats will never be completely accurate.

 

Well, I don't fly Quantas. You stated it would be compulsory and it isn't. Everyone right now is being pressured to wear masks but not everyone is doing so.
Companies are, bound by law, right to to abide by the Health and Safety Act restrictions to protect their staff and everyone seems to think that is a good idea, so why would you protest when a Employer abided by that Health and Safety Act ruling by making it policy that employees should be tested and conditions made as safe as possible. People are dying by the thousands because a person finds it offensive to protect their family, friends, livelihoods of all, due to the fact they think they have the right to do what they want, when they want........and, in reality, that's never been true.

 

Ah, so it is going to be compulsory then - if you want to earn a wage.....

I didn't say I was going to protest, I was merely pointing out that what is being made out to be voluntary is in fact not going to be really voluntary - - if you choose not to have it, you are going to be denied the right to earn a wage, or to do various other things. Testing is one thing (although, even the test itself is quite invasive and carries a degree of risk, depending on the type of test), but vaccination is a whole different ball game.

 

Well, for starters, pete, the tests only show if a person is infected on the day of the test, they could get infected the following day, so the tests contributing to the National stats is only a secondary function. The main function is to find those people who are infected and need to isolate and stop them spreading the infection.

To be honest with you, why would you want to know?, would it effect anything? The most important factor is how many were/are found to be positive but, again, the tests only provide a short window of that day of how many people were found to be infective, the next day could provide a completely different picture.

Well, they've either got it right or they've got it wrong and you have to recognise they're never going to get it exactly right But it has been made clear that the stats are only approximate and trying to see what the situation is through a foggy window because of all the variables so, because of the two week lag and the other variables, the figures will never be correct to the last decimal figure or even in the sum total. The Government can only use what Scientific advice they are getting after a week or so of approximately correct figures and have to cast the bones to see what the future holds.
If people carry on ignoring the restrictions, for whatever reason, then stats, accurate or not, are not worth a damn.

 

No, it's not!! Getting on a Bus/Train or Taxi and paying your fare is compulsory, taking food from a Store and paying for it, is compulsory because that is the kind of society that we in the UK, and many other countries, recognise as the socially responsible thing to do.
Would you sit, at work, next to, (or allow in your House, a person who you knew to be infected, I don't think so?You, yourself, would have to take that decision so why would you shout "compulsory!!!" knowing that you wouldn't accept the conditions I've mentioned. The Health and Safety Act wasn't brought about for Government purpose. Governments and Employers were dragged, in the 20th Century, screaming and hollering into bringing in the Health and Safey Act as you see it now. It's there for your protection and safety, or do you see it a Government weapon of repression?

Life is full of decisions that we have take for our families, friends, our standards of Living and society.......now that is compulsory. Trying to use a specific word in the wrong context to serve a purpose is not compulsory.

 

You miss my point entirely - - my point is that there will be so many restrictions (including being forced out of employment) placed upon those that they will have no option but to go for the vaccine. So whilst it may be voluntary from the government's perspective, it is going to be compulsory/mandatory for anyone that wishes to continue to work etc. Whilst it is not the government per se that is making it mandatory, it is going to be mandatory/compulsory.

 

Oh, we are perfectly calm @Jenny namaste - we never let a wee bit of a debate get in the way of our friendship.

 

I don't miss your point, FC. But to state that it's specifically compulsory is still not true, you have the choice to take the vaccine or not if that's what your beliefs are.
But not to recognise that other things in Life, because of our social upbringing, commitments etc, are, in reality, compulsory while trying put vaccinations into the compulsory spotlight to prove your assertion is to deny that you, me and the rest of the World make our decisions for ourselves, every day, for our family, friends, and others in the context of our economic and personal survival.
There's no Government agenda or conspiracy to make a vaccination compulsory nor does the fact that we have to take those, every day, socially responsible decisions to make a future for ourselves and families any less "compulsory" in reality.
It would be a mistake to blur the words "compulsory" and "socially responsible" into the same context just to prove Government conspiracies, engineered social injustices, etc, are always behind every event in Life.

 

We're just taxing our grey matter, Jenny, and FC and I are strong friends.

 

Not sure that these are the only sides of the coin. Not being allowed to continue in your existing job unless a vaccination is taken is a form of compulsion. No vac, no work. Here we don't allow clients to be seen without having their temperature taken. Does it show much? Not necessarily, but it's in the guidelines from government for our Covid Risk Assessment.

That system can't work for the whole of the population as there are too many of us that are already not working to be able to make it a good guideline. When I go shopping, are they going to ask for proof of vaccination? It used to happen when I was travelling around the world and vaccination certificates had to be shown before entering a country. That was compulsion.

The problem with all this is that the systems aren't in place to test and monitor what is already happening. Track and Trace is still not working properly (an understatement) and statistics of 'Dying with Covid' give a totally wrong impression. I have good examples of both failings. One of each as a simple example (I have more):- Track and Trace telling someone to isolate for 14 days from having been in contact with someone who possibly had Covid - 17 days after the contact!!! I'm the told to isolate. A friend died from a blood clot five days after being admitted to hospital. He had one Covid test that came back negative. Covid was put on the death certificate. Even the nurses in the hospital objected to that.

The systems need to be shown to be working at least reasonably well before people feel safe with the decisions.

Having said all that, I wear a mask when out, keep my distance, wash my hands and avoid going to shops and busy places at busy times. Have banned a friend (now an ex-friend) from coming to our house/garden for having attended the rally in Trafalgar Square whilst not even wearing a mask. Can I trust them in future? No!