After Brexit - am I stupid or what?

Discussion in 'Off-Topic Discussion' started by ARMANDII, Jan 31, 2020.

  1. pete

    pete Growing a bit of this and a bit of that....

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    The UK fishing fleet was decimated when we joined the EU, which is why it is so small now.
    But that was a long time ago.
    The waters are overfished and its more about who controls where, rather than who fishes where.

    For some reason a very large part of the fish the UK boats catch is exported to Europe, at the same time we import fish from Europe.
    None of it makes much sense to me but that is trade I guess.

    I dont think you should plunder the seas just because they are there, and when you see the size of some of those Dutch ships sucking up the whole sea bed you have to wonder how long it will last.
     
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    • noisette47

      noisette47 Total Gardener

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      I find it more worrying when countries start wanting to delineate frontiers, acquire territory etc. That's how world wars start. :sad:
       
    • pete

      pete Growing a bit of this and a bit of that....

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      Remember the cod war.;):biggrin:
      We lost that one.
       
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      • Fat Controller

        Fat Controller 'Cuddly' Scottish Admin! Staff Member

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        Damning legacy of EU policy which BURNED British boats as foreign vessels emptied our seas
         
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        • ARMANDII

          ARMANDII Low Flying Administrator Staff Member

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          I wish it was a simple as that, noisette, even though I would like it to be. In the days when the EU was calling the shots the UK was subjected to having the responsibility of it's own fishing rights, quotas, and ability to decide who could, and couldn't, enter it's territorial waters taken away by an unelected foreign organisation. So, all decisions were then decided by 27 other foreign countries and Courts and that wasn't just fishing rights or quotas but lots of other sovereign and commercial areas. A lot of decisions over the 47 years were taken without being passed in agreement with the UK Parliament and gave more and more access to more and more countries as the UK was outvoted.
          What we're now stuck with are one sided agreements regarding not only fishing but many other things in UK territorial waters where the EU countries believed they had more right to fish with bigger quotas and enter UK waters than the British did. The EU still wants that control, which they believe is their right, when the 31st December 2020 arrives and passes. It's true that the British Fishing Fleet has been much reduced and will take some years to return but it will grow naturally as demand for fish in other markets arise. The one thing that needs to change is that, at present, a lot of huge foreign companies own a lot of the UK Fishing fleets and that needs to change with more independent UK ownership.
          The EU doesn't accept that it can no longer have the right to enter and fish as, and when, and as much as it's wants in another country's sovereign waters. The UK is willing, at the moment, to accept agreements to the EU having some of the one sided agreements to stand for a year or maybe two, but then wants to retain the right to decide, annually, on fishing quotas and areas within it's own territorial waters.
          The French want to retain the old agreements where their Fishing Boats can come and go and, to be honest, their catch quotas are not that closely monitored yet there have been countless incidents where UK Fishing Boats wanting to fish in French waters for Mussels, Fish, Crabs etc have been challenged and stopped doing by French Authorities and French Fishermen.
          The EU countries accuse the UK of being selfish and one sided but, for over 40 years, it was the other way around and, of course, are now they're unhappy that they can no longer dictate what happens:dunno::cat-kittyandsmiley::coffee:
           
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          • Loofah

            Loofah Admin Staff Member

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            It's further complicated as when the UK was sulking about poor quotas and rights, they decided to sell a large amount of them off so the 'UK' quotas are actually foreign owned to some extent and BoJo has no intent to remedy that either.
             
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            • clanless

              clanless Total Gardener

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              Another chat between our Boris and Ursula at 4 today - it's time we had some clarity.

              Extract from news site:

              The EU is warning that, without ongoing access to UK waters for its fleets, UK fishermen will no longer have special access to EU markets to sell their goods.

              But the UK argues that what goes on in its own waters should be under its control as a sovereign country.


              I don't think that the EU have ever fully understood. Brexit is not about trade - it's about control. Yes, fishing is a very small part of the GDP - but taking back control of our waters is more important.

              Bloke of the TV (Gov't Minister) said that on average a no deal brexit will increase prices by 2%. I can handle that if we make the decisions about our future.
               
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              • pete

                pete Growing a bit of this and a bit of that....

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                I'm assuming that only applies to stuff we buy from the EU, stuff that comes from China, (and we get a load of that), and world wide should remain the same I'm thinking.

                So in the future we might have to source products from other countries.
                 
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                • clanless

                  clanless Total Gardener

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                  Good point pete. At the moment we are obliged to apply specific tariffs to non EU goods - the income collected going into the EU pot. Some would say to make sure that the EU remain competitive within its own market. Now we are out of the EU, we are free to make our own decisions around non EU goods tariffs, so some goods will be cheaper. So stuff from China could well be cheaper. If I recall correctly, Rees Mogg said that we can reduce tariffs on clothing to bring the price down. I suspect the 2% was for EU goods.
                   
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                  • pete

                    pete Growing a bit of this and a bit of that....

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                    I'm not expecting the government to lower import tax on anything to be honest, they will want it to remain and get the money into the governments coffers, rather than the EU getting it.
                     
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                    • ARMANDII

                      ARMANDII Low Flying Administrator Staff Member

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                      According to the latest Parliamentary speech, this afternoon, the difference between the value of annual exports between the EU and the UK is £100 Billion more exported from the EU than exported from the UK. So, the EU stands to lose a lot more economically than the UK but, in the end, we both lose out if the EU doesn't change it's final demands.:dunno:
                       
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                      • pete

                        pete Growing a bit of this and a bit of that....

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                        To be honest, that just points out how relient we are on the EU, how we got to that is debatable but it is worrying regarding getting supplies after December.
                         
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                        • Fat Controller

                          Fat Controller 'Cuddly' Scottish Admin! Staff Member

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                          Brexit: Conditions for trade deal still 'not there'

                          Conditions 'not there'..... well maybe, just maybe, if everyone had put their efforts into working on this the past four and a half years instead of trying to stop it from happening, those conditions might well have been there.
                           
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                          • Fat Controller

                            Fat Controller 'Cuddly' Scottish Admin! Staff Member

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                            First few months of the year could be bumpy, but I don't reckon it will be too long before the likes of Renault, BMW and the French fishermen are knocking the door of that harridan Von Der Leyen and demanding something is done. You don't lose £100bn of sales and not feel the pinch.
                             
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                            • Fat Controller

                              Fat Controller 'Cuddly' Scottish Admin! Staff Member

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