Electric cars.

I had my Vauxhall serviced recently and was asked if I would like to try their electric Mokka.
It was fun ,very quiet ,smart dashboard ,horrible colour.
Then I was told the price £32.000
Not worth it at all..........so it’s a no from me until the price drops considerably.

 

Depends on your mileage ... although I am guessing yours is not that of a travelling salesman

And my mileage isn't what it was, as I am sure you can guess but back then I was around 35K miles a year and that cost around 2p a mile for juice, and close to nothing for service (wipers and tires was about it). So somewhere around £700 a year for 35K miles instead of £3,500 - £7,000 to drive a thirsty fossil.

I expect that Vauxhall is fair bit cheaper than whatever the equivalent was 3 years earlier ... so hopefully in 3 years time you'll be biting the salesman's arm off ... or something like that! And hopefully they will have British Racing Green instead of Chuck Up Green to offer you. Maybe even White ...

I replaced mine at 3+ years, it had done 95K miles, and I bought like-for-like, which was 20% cheap and battery went 20% further ... I reckon that price drop will continue with more economies of scale and improvements to the mechanicals. The Ioniq and Kona look very impressive - nudging 5 miles per kWh, and a night rate of 5p a unit can be had fairly readily, so that's on the 1p-a-mile mark.

 

That's the problem with electric cars - they are too quiet.

Everyone is use to the sound of a combustion engine - its noise acts as a warning signal and puts people on alert that a car is nearby. Everyone walking around staring down at their 'phones and a quiet electric car - the perfect storm...

 

... with their headphones in their ears <sigh>

 

New cars of any description are out of my price range these days, electric ones especially and I've never seen the point of a hybrid.
So, I'm in a dilemma, do I keep my 7 yr old Ford focus with 60k on the clock and wait until a second hand, worn out battery operated electric effort becomes within my price range, or buy something a bit newer now that will last me until I'm too old to drive.

By which time I'm guessing anything that creates and emission while moving, instead of one that does so while charging up, will be banned in most town centres.

 

We have two cars, one is 17 years old, the other nearly 24. We have no plans on changing ... unless we find a Chevrolet El Caminho then the Kia Estate will go ...



... and we will have an even older car ...

 

No first hand experience, but second hand Leaf/similar with knackered-ish battery for running around, and something else for trips, might be an option for some. I haven't looked recently, might have changed, but 2nd had Leaf was "dirt cheap"

Even hiring a Fossil for trips. That's not going to be any good unless "trips" is only a couple of times a year. (Not certain, but I think sale of new Leaf comes with 2x Fossil hire a year)

I think you are spot on that if you replace with Fossil now you will be penalised during ownership - both increasing cost (fuel / road tax) and also banned or charged significant "Entrance fee" to towns.

But its a good thing. I wouldn't want to be living, particularly with young kids, in one of those houses right next to aerial through-town roads (such houses might be a good investment though - non-polluting, quiet, vehicles coming real-soon-now ...)

Anyone able to have two cars and keep a Fossil for trips, and Electric for the rest, would be doing the planet a favour I reckon. We did that initially until electric got to the point of covering our needs, but we have spent a kings ransom to be in that position.

Original EV, 5 years ago, was 240-ish real-world miles 100%-0% (realistically 10%-80% refuel interval, so drive-charge-drive was 170 miles between stops) and I had an out-of-range day a couple of times a month. Now with 300 mile range (motorway speed) out-of-range charging is only a couple of times a year, and now we have driven to Alps electric and would not have done that before (that's just my refuelling-stop-time tolerance, others have done it in 100 mile range EVs, and others would not contemplate it with my 30 minute stop every 2.5 hours ...)

I reckon this can go two ways ...

1. Norway-style. Provide government money to make-it-happen. I think Norway is 0% VAT on EVs, but it might be there are other inducements too. They have both Hydro electrics and a Sovereign Wealth Fund, from their North Sea Oil profits (ironically) to put to that use. Sale of pure Fossil (Petrol / Diesel, non-hybrid) is now under 10% of new cars. Good quality charging is (now) everywhere

2. Tax the polluter to force the punter to change.

Of course our government has done neither. They have taken away the subsidy on "expensive" EVs. Whilst I don't think rich barstewards should get handouts, sadly some of them won't buy without them, and a high mileage travelling salesman is not a R.B. ... but absolutely needs the "range" model which is, now, in the "not subsidised" price bracket. So the most polluting drivers have no incentive to change. And the net effect of this is to reduce new EV purchase ... and, more crucially in my mind, the availability of cheaper, 2nd hand, hand-me-downs in 3+ years time just at the time when everything takes off

The "Fuel Escalator" specifically introduced a decade or more to raise Fossil Fuel prices annually and "force the pace" has very noticeably NOT been increased for a half dozen years or more.

Oh ... our government has done something:

Move the deadline closer for the ban on sales of Fossil cars ...

... whilst providing no inducement either way.

J.C. on a bike ...

I have a simple viewpoint on this. We have had the good times, there is now a retrospective "tax" coming to pay for the mess we made and my Range Rover School-Run Driving mates are doing diddly-squat (well, Mrs K says they've stopped inviting us to dinner because I spend so much of the evening haranguing them!)

So the K-Solution, being all we are left with?, is to be to embarrass them into submission. I think I'll put up a sign at the gate "EV's only" and then a "Fossils" sign to the muddy field opposite ... no invitations to dinner, no visitors either!

 

yes, good point. Definitely a Gold Star to anyone dedicated enough to have EV without off road home charging.

All good points FC ...

I don't know the answer - but I know plenty of people who could make an effort to [and can definitely afford to] be more green and aren't doing so. I have no idea what they think they are waiting for ... I ungraciously assume "handouts".

"No raindrop thought it caused the flood"

.. excellent point. "Other Brands Are Available"

I agree. I don't have an artistic bone in my body, so can't tell if Ioniq is better looking than say, me!! but plenty tell me they like the look (for avoidance of doubt "Of the Ioniq" )

But I do have an opinion on the technical side and on that I think the Ioniq is superb. No idea why or how, but they must have done research /whatever and then gone on to get it right.

I Googled the Cd and Miles-per-kWh (real world rather than marketing-speak / useless "government test" results )

Cd / Miles-per-kWh

0.23 / 4.4 - 4.8 Tesla Model 3 (LR - SR)
0.288 / 4.5 Ioniq 5

So Ioniq has worse Cd and better/equivalent "MPG" ...

I think VW "ID" range is going to be a good solution too. They have done ground-up design, rather than chuck Motor and Battery into existing frame, and looks like the resulting "skateboard" is going to be the right one. The VW doesn't excite on any front, but ticks every box ... which is a pretty good starting point for many.

You don't mention Renault? They've been in the EV game a long time, and whilst I have no personal experience I get the impression that the Zoe is a good contender.

I think the iPace is an excellent car. But sales don't seem to have reflected that (is my viewpoint out of date??)

I think BMW is behind the curve. The i3 was a good'un, and the lawn-mower-engine "range extender" option was a good solution for its time. But what since then? seems like mostly silence to me

I think Merc is doing well. The EQx range is extremely well soundproofed, taking advantage of the already quiet drive train. Pretty good range too. Big commitment from the company - lots of future models look to be both coming-soon and promising.

But over all I think VW ID will be the star ... and in the VAG group they have other EV experience to share - Porsche Taycan is technically excellent but different (e.g. Regen is on the brake pedal, not throttle lift-off), and the approach of Audi (Thirsty, Poor range, but very fast charging) is a different technical approach to that of the much more frugal VW ID, and sharing all those difference knowledges must reap some benefit for the next-generation VAG EVs

(Of course wonderfully fast charging is only any good if there are actually any wonderfully fast chargers to stop at ... our Government lagging there too)

I would challenge your "simply" there

My view is that (whilst not cutting the EV any "slack" per se) we need to consider how things will be when the EV industry has matured and taking into account the loud PR-Voice of the Oil industry, which seeks to obfuscate things and hide the true cost of getting Oil from Well-to-Wheel.

For example recent EU government-financed research into how battery recycling will be, once that industry has "matured", found that a car like mine, which has a tonne of battery (literally), will need about 20Kg of freshly mined material to recycle it into a new battery as compared to an ICE using about 20 tonnes of refined fuel for a 150,000 mile lifetime - excluding energy/emissions for drilling, transportation, refining, and making it available at the forecourt.

There's a good YouTube on "Well-to-Wheel" comparison EV vs ICE by Fully Charged, narrated by Robert Llewellyn, for anyone interested.

 

One of my big wonders is when are the government going to slap the tax on the electricity that you use to charge.
Is it metered separately?
If not how will they do it, via smart meters maybe?

Once we all stop driving fossil cars, where will those billions be collected from.

 

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