Ukraine

Discussion in 'Off-Topic Discussion' started by clanless, Jan 22, 2022.

  1. Black Dog

    Black Dog Gardener of useful things

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    Even China can't buy all the stuff Russia is famous for - which isn't a lot. And at the moment they sit back and watch everything from the outside, still thinking about whether they should get involved or not.

    Russia is not a rich country. They have a lot of military but even that is mostly outdated and only worth something when going up against a weaker enemy. Only thing that is saving them now is their nuclear arsenal keeping enemies that would see eye to eye at bay.
     
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    • Fat Controller

      Fat Controller 'Cuddly' Scottish Admin! Staff Member

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      Monetary sanctions won't bother them at all - as @pete rightly points out, they have China and indeed have just signed up a 30 year oil and gas deal with them. Between the two, they control an awful lot of fuel, food and raw materials for manufacturing.

      For years - decades even (and I have said this before elsewhere) we have been slowly building the likes of China and Russia up by buying our wares from them and they have used the profits from that to build themselves up militarily. China will be sat on the sidelines here, with Taiwan fully in its sights and laughing up their sleeves that the Western leaders have been so stupid as to become so reliant on other countries, and allow our own infrastructure to lapse - and all in the name of virtue-signalling half-arsed 'green' credentials.

      I remain even less convinced that Covid was not a deliberate prelude to this to weaken Western economies and turn their focus away.
       
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      • pete

        pete Growing a bit of this and a bit of that....

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        Let this be a lesson to our governments, no more Russian or Chinese, so called "investment " in our countries.
         
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        • clanless

          clanless Total Gardener

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          Massive inflation is guaranteed - supply and demand. Blocking access to the worlds banking system means that Russia will have to send truck loads of depreciating Roubles to China. They won't be able to transfer money from one bank to another. Having a supplier and then paying them - two different things.
           
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          • Fat Controller

            Fat Controller 'Cuddly' Scottish Admin! Staff Member

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            They are already talking about the price of fuel being circa £1.70 per litre; of course, our government could very easily calm this by reducing FDR, but they won't...
             
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            • Upsydaisy

              Upsydaisy Total Gardener

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              Watching the lunchtime news was unbearably hearbreaking. :sad:
               
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              • pete

                pete Growing a bit of this and a bit of that....

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                The Ukrainians can fight and watch Russia blow the place and the people to pieces or give in.
                Neither option sounds good.
                 
              • clanless

                clanless Total Gardener

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                Difference is Ukrainian soldiers are fighting for their homes - Russian troops are fighting at the behest of a dictator.

                I see that Poland are offering help to and taking in refugees - this is what it's all about - humanity.
                 
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                • clanless

                  clanless Total Gardener

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                  I reckon that Chinese military won't get involved. They will probably have the same agreement with Russia as they have with North Korea - if you are attacked we will help you - but if you start the war you're on your own.
                   
                • JimmyB

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                  funny: I stopped listening to or watching the BBC a while back when it became apparent that Boris and James Murdoch’s threats to them had taken effect and they seemed to have become something of a Government mouthpiece - no longer even trying to hold the Government to account.

                  Funny how the same thing can be perceived so completely differently.
                   
                • JimmyB

                  JimmyB Gardener

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                  Truly. Absolutely heart breaking. War again in Europe. Will we never learn?
                   
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                  • Fat Controller

                    Fat Controller 'Cuddly' Scottish Admin! Staff Member

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                    The net perception is the same however - that the BBC are no longer purveyors of quality, trustworthy news.
                     
                  • Fat Controller

                    Fat Controller 'Cuddly' Scottish Admin! Staff Member

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                    We did. Putin didn't
                     
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                    • JimmyB

                      JimmyB Gardener

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                      Chatted with an old Serb friend yesterday - always interesting to get a very different perspective. Basically it seems Russia’s friends are indulging themselves in a big old game of false equivalence (‘The west is just as bad’) and whataboutery (‘look what NATO has done all over the world’).

                      While we could argue about the first, the second is true but irrelevant. NATO
                      Behaving badly doesn’t excuse Russia…

                      I have to say that the huge amounts of Russian cash in the Uk and donated to the Conservative party are absolutely disgraceful. We have been corrupted completely by our appalling political class. And as others have rightly pointed out buying all the stuff we do from people who really do not have our interests at heart at all has been insanity. We should trade with Europeans to the extent we can - as we have more shared values, and for environmental reasons. Buying ‘cheap’ from Russia, China and Saudi is suddenly not looking quite so cheap after all

                      And Starmer can stick his war mongering - if I want a to vote for war mongering conservative, there’s a whole great big party of them right there already… what an absolute disgrace of a man he is.
                       
                    • JimmyB

                      JimmyB Gardener

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                      Completely. On the one side running the BBC down has been the clear policy of the Tories for decades. Even when their 3 lead political journalists were notedly well right, the public was constantly told that they were a bed of socialists. The constant attacks on them has led them to them becoming so cautious in holding the government to account it’s ridiculous.

                      So no one trusts them - which is exactly what the conservatives want. Very self fulfilling prophecy there. The destruction of the BBC journalism is utterly tragic.
                       
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