Ukraine

Discussion in 'Off-Topic Discussion' started by clanless, Jan 22, 2022.

  1. JimmyB

    JimmyB Gardener

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    I agree entirely @pete except with the last bit: to understand here, we have to see how older Russians (and the KGB) see their own defence. The invasion of Ukraine really was a defensive move for them - insane though that looks from here. They saw their own total encirclement by enemies to be just a matter of time, with the Ukraine looking west not east for trade and relevance. So I've no idea about Finland or what an embattled KGB might do: but it's not been on their target list any time recently, and would trigger a military response from Europe I imagine - which they must know. So unless their strategy is to create a world war, that seems unlikely. But who knows...
     
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    • JR

      JR Chilled Gardener

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      Since the arrival of covid 19 the world has steadily turned to dung. This Putin catastrophe started when all nations were already up to their eyeballs in debt. There could well be plenty of civil unrest, but I doubt it will achieve much. If we force a general election it may end up with a weak coalition or a weak Labour government with a small majority, and little clout.
      I'll put lots of veg in this year too, same as Loofah. Prepare for the worst and keep yer head down.
      On the brighter side it looks like a pleasant week ahead with temps in the mid teens so I'll get busy sowing seeds.
       
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      • JimmyB

        JimmyB Gardener

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        I hope so. The unrest that is. We have sat and watched as our economy has been betrayed by vested political and comemrcial interests, power has been ceded to the unelected and unaccountable, speculation (shall we call it gambling?) has become the choice industry for those who spread or create no wealth. All the while we are told that the NHS, decent education, a proper judicial process and decent housing cannot be afforded. Though £billions were handed corruptly - with apparently no consequence - by the most corrupt and criminal set of politicians the country has seen for...centuries?

        We need to do something here because sure as hell, those responsible for this disaster really do not give a monkeys about such suffering.
         
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        • JimmyB

          JimmyB Gardener

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          Yeah - me too: planting to eat... our island can produce 30% of the food the population needs...that's it.
           
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          • Loofah

            Loofah Admin Staff Member

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            I wonder how many unused farms there are in the UK? Probably be a good idea to get them manned and working to try and alleviate some food pressure.
             
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            • pete

              pete Growing a bit of this and a bit of that....

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              When I drive around the countryside I see lots of unused land, derelict orchards etc. Often wonder who owns these places and why they are left like that.
              Someone must own these places and they obviously don't need to make any income from it.
              Same old story 5% of the population owning 90% of the land.
               
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              • clanless

                clanless Total Gardener

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                For what it's worth - I've just had a go at my MP about the way we are treating Ukrainian refugees. His ears will be glowing bright red just about now.

                Requiring visa's and sending people who travelled across Europe back to Paris or Brussels is not good enough.
                 
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                • Loofah

                  Loofah Admin Staff Member

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                  The UK has, or is fast becoming, so inflexible and dogmatic in all its endeavours. It really is not an endearing trait.
                   
                • JimmyB

                  JimmyB Gardener

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                  Absolutely. There is so much land that could be easily productive and in non-destructive ways. But how many folks would even know where to start? If food means a plastic wrapped pack of something heavy on the sugar and slightly toxic from Iceland, then growing food is quite a stretch. The flip side is that done as a community project, it has huge social benefits too.

                  We've got some ancient law been revived recently to allow for a 'Requête' to be called. It's a Parish meeting (parishes mean a bit more here than at home in the UK) to allow locals to discuss plans to build several hundred homes on both green field and polluted so now-brown field agricultural land. It turns out that the Deputies from two neighbouring parishes who called for these specific fields to be used, were in fact doing so at the request of our own Deputy, who, funny that, actually owns them! The sense of outrage is palpable: the need to keep farmland to grow food is this week perhaps more obvious then ever.

                  In the light of the protests, I think the planning consent might get turned down... fingers crossed. And then we can crack on with some local and community schemes.
                   
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                  • JR

                    JR Chilled Gardener

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                    Fully agree with that. 50 visa's so far isn't good enough. Britain should help these poor people and relax the rules for Ukrainians right now.
                     
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                    • JimmyB

                      JimmyB Gardener

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                      I am ashamed to be associated with this...
                       
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                      • JR

                        JR Chilled Gardener

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                        I've just fired off an email to my MP saying the same
                         
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                        • Nikolaos

                          Nikolaos Total Gardener

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                          I think 50 is fine considering how highly populated Britain is, but what I don't like is the fact that they appear to have initially promised to take far more in than that figure, but have now completely changed their position. :scratch:

                          Nick
                           
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                          • JWK

                            JWK Gardener Staff Member

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                            Farmers get paid to not cultivate land. There used to be an EU scheme called set-aside whereby farmers were effectively paid the same for uncultivated land instead of growing crops. This was because of all the surpluses the EU produced and the terrible consequence of dumping it in the third world. Set-aside has been replaced with several schemes effectively the same thing. Now we are out of the EU we should look to get back to self sufficiency in my opinion but doubt there is any will amongst farmers these days, many are run by big business with politicians in their pockets.
                             
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                            • JimmyB

                              JimmyB Gardener

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                              Was chatting with a colleague in Zurich earlier who says that the Swiss authorities are apparently finding that some refugees do not want to come to Switzerland - but, understandably, want to stay as close to Ukraine as they can. Can understand that view...but if this goes on a while then resettlement becomes a necessary evil - and there are much worse places than Switzerland.
                               
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