Electric cars.

Discussion in 'Off-Topic Discussion' started by pete, Apr 7, 2021.

  1. Fat Controller

    Fat Controller 'Cuddly' Scottish Admin! Staff Member

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    I've drive hybrid buses and to be fair I was impressed with them - nice and smooth, nice and quiet, so despite being a luddite petrolhead, I also see the benefits. I just cannot afford what the money they are asking for EVs at the moment (bear in mind, I live in the 3-5 year old cars bracket)
     
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    • JWK

      JWK Gardener Staff Member

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      I noticed the value of my old diesel car has gone up by about £2,000 over the last year, getting a quote from the likes of webuyanycar. No one wins if new cars are over priced too.
       
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      • pete

        pete Growing a bit of this and a bit of that....

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        OK, so just looked up PHEV, and it appears to be a hybrid.
        Now can you tell me what is the point of building a car that does both?

        To me it just suggests that the EV bit doesn't work well enough or is not reliable enough.

        Add to that putting a diesel? engine into the car and electric motor and it just sounds crazy.
         
      • Fat Controller

        Fat Controller 'Cuddly' Scottish Admin! Staff Member

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        The idea is that you can do your small journeys - home to work and back for example - using the car as an EV, but then have the petrol/diesel engine for longer runs.

        So for example, we do about 24 miles per day in city traffic - EV is ideal for that, but not really the best if I want to go a longer run (such as the run I did to Wales last year), so in theory we could use the car as an EV for the daily grind, plugging it in each night, but then jump in at the weekend and head off to wherever we want. If using the petrol engine, the battery can be charged, or with a full battery it will run in full hybrid mode where the petrol engine is 'assisted' by the electric motors which increases the fuel economy.
         
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        • pete

          pete Growing a bit of this and a bit of that....

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          Still cant see how putting both power units into the same vehicle can be cost effective, but I see your point.
          But it bears out mine.:biggrin:
          The EV is not a viable option full time?
           
        • Fat Controller

          Fat Controller 'Cuddly' Scottish Admin! Staff Member

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          It is - just not ones that you and I can afford just yet. There are a couple of cars now that are game-changers, but they are brand new on the market - the Hyundai Ioniq5 and the Kia EV6 with maybe the Kia e-Niro a close third. They can do circa 300 miles on a full charge, can charge from flat to 80% in around 20 mins on a rapid charger, so you could easily go from one end of the country to the other and stop once for a brew, charging it whilst you are having a wee break.

          The downside is that these cars are all circa £40k and more.
           
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          • pete

            pete Growing a bit of this and a bit of that....

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            Which was my point when I said if I ever get one I'm going to end up with some out dated piece of junk.
            Buying cars has always been a catch up, but its never bothered me that much buying second hand because, although if it was 3 or 4 yrs old it wasn't exactly the same as a new one, it was still up to the job.

            But with EVs the technology is moving faster, so anything bought last year is going to be junk in 3 yrs time.
             
          • Jocko

            Jocko Guided by my better half.

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            An EV would be perfect for my motoring needs. Today was one of my typical motoring days. I did 5.3 miles at an average speed of 17 mph. I have off-street parking and easy access to put in a charging point at home.
            There are as many Hybrid types as there are manufacturers. There are mild Hybrids where the electrics assist the ICE, there are Hybrids that will do 4 miles full EV then need the engine, there are PHEVs where you charge a sizeable battery which is good for almost 40 miles before it needs the engine. The benefit of a hybrid is it claws back the energy normally lost in braking and uses that to recharge the battery hence giving improved fuel efficiency.
            Tomorrow I am going to test drive the new Honda Jazz Hybrid (not a PHEV). It works in the same way as a diesel-electric locomotive (and they have been running successfully and efficiently for more than half a century on British Rail)
            The Jazz has an electric transmission (like a full EV). The petrol engine runs in an efficient mode (I believe Atkinson cycle) to charge the battery and, in winter, for cabin heating. The only time the petrol engine drives the wheels is at speed such as the motorway (there is no gearbox and no conventional clutch). As a Jazz owner, albeit an old petrol one, I frequent a Jazz forum and the owners of the new Jazz and Crosstar (a slightly "butch" version) are reporting regular mpg figures of 60 - 70 - 80 mpg.
             
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            • Fat Controller

              Fat Controller 'Cuddly' Scottish Admin! Staff Member

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              It will slow down - the pace of change is quite rapid at the moment because they are all trying to get themselves established as an EV maker; a lot of the mainstream manufacturers have been caught napping, whilst the Korean's have done their homework and are actually producing cars that do live up to their claims.
              I also think the high prices are part of the drive to get us used to not owning cars, but rather renting them when we need them. You and I know that won't work, but those clever rich people think it would be better if we did... for the time being, they will get us used to that by having everyone in PCP deals or lease deals where you never actually own the car.
               
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              • shiney

                shiney President, Grumpy Old Men's Club Staff Member

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                Out of curiosity, how does using the air-con in the car all the time during the summer affect the efficiency and range?
                 
              • JWK

                JWK Gardener Staff Member

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                Badly. The opposite effect in the winter where you need the heater on also affect it badly plus the cold reduces the battery pack efficiency. Mine had a heater for the battery pack which of course uses more power. Mine had a bewildering set of modes from ultra eco to full on sports. In the ultra eco it was like driving a milk float, in sports mode it accelerated like a supercar.
                 
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                • Jocko

                  Jocko Guided by my better half.

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                  It reduces it. As does rain, wind, heated seats and listening to the radio.
                   
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                  • pete

                    pete Growing a bit of this and a bit of that....

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                    I looked at some of those "deals" and they looked very expensive to me.
                    I know if you factor everything in its probably not as bad as it seems, but if you buy, after your initial outlay, you have running costs, which are kind of controllable up to a point.

                    But with this "never never" idea it is entirely that, never yours until its old and then you have to buy it or pay lots more to get a newer one.
                    Its a downward spiral, but then cars always are.

                    Rarely gets hot enough to use aircon in this country, but I tend to use the heater quite a lot.:smile:
                     
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                    • shiney

                      shiney President, Grumpy Old Men's Club Staff Member

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                      Yes, but I'm a delicate flower and need temperature control all the time. :whistle:
                       
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                      • JWK

                        JWK Gardener Staff Member

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                        I use air-con in the winter to get rid of condensation. I hardly ever use it in the summer, my car comes with wind-down windows to let fresh air in.
                         
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