Ukraine

Discussion in 'Off-Topic Discussion' started by clanless, Jan 22, 2022.

  1. gks

    gks Total Gardener

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    Apparently 25-30% of this black soil (chernozem) can be found in the Ukraine, some areas it can be 1.5m deep. The soil is so fertile it is possible that the Ukraine could grow enough food to feed the world's population. There is 2 main belts of chernozem soil, one belt in East Europe with the other in Canada
     
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    • pete

      pete Growing a bit of this and a bit of that....

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      Any chance of bagging some up for us.:biggrin:
       
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      • JWK

        JWK Gardener Staff Member

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        With a name like chernozen maybe near chernobyl, it makes me wonder if there is a bit of radioactive material to promote plant growth ;)
         
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        • Clueless 1 v2

          Clueless 1 v2 Total Gardener

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          • clanless

            clanless Total Gardener

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            Latvia have supplied a load of military hardware to Ukraine - this must be what Gazprom means by 'violating conditions of purchase'. Putin is as trustworthy as a soggy paper carrier bag - with holes in it....

            Russian energy giant Gazprom says it has suspended gas supplies to Latvia - the latest EU country to experience such action amid tensions over Ukraine.

            Gazprom accused Latvia of violating conditions of purchase but gave no details of that alleged violation.

             
          • clanless

            clanless Total Gardener

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            That's an interesting read - but look at the author - a journalist. I'm not saying he is wrong - he's concentrating on the negative impact for other than Russia. Yes the Ruble is soaring - but this is because Putin has fiddled the figures to make it look better than it is. In this case a strong currency does not translate into a strong economy.

            I'm not saying the we are not being bashed economically - that will always happen when you refuse to service a customer - but this is nothing compared to the atrocities in Ukraine.

            Putin bombed a prison full of POW's - he can deny it - but intercepted 'phone calls say otherwise.
             
          • Clueless 1 v2

            Clueless 1 v2 Total Gardener

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            All the west has achieved so far is we've forced Russia to forge stronger ties to other countries that don't like us.

            We've killed off any chance of winning the hearts and minds of the ordinary Russian people. We've basically stopped them from traveling, so they only know what Russian state media tells them.

            And we've given a wealth of military intelligence to Russia by sending state of the art weapons in dribs and drabs, enough for his side to learn what we've got while not being enough to significantly change the course of the war.

            The western response is just one blunder after another. There was even a former top dog of British intelligence in the news the other day, basically saying the same thing.

            Putin has nothing to fear. Europe is in disarray, with EU member states arguing about how to respond. In Britain our government chose now of all times to break the leadership. The Americans are more divided than ever. And Putin is keeping his most lethal capabilities in reserve.

            I hate to say it, and I hope the diplomats get in first, but I think we the NATO side kind of needs to decide. Are we at war with Russia or not. If the answer is yes, we need decisive action. If the answer is no, then we need to stop isolating Putin and all the Russian people, and pull out all the stops to resolve the crisis through diplomacy.

            Basically, as it stands today, Russia can not be defeated, despite what the propaganda suggests. Diplomacy is the only logical approach.
             
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            • Jocko

              Jocko Guided by my better half.

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              That goes against everything I have read elsewhere, even reports from inside Russia.
              And as for stopping Russians from travelling, the average Russian has never been much further than the next village or town, never mind travelling to a foreign country.
               
            • Clueless 1 v2

              Clueless 1 v2 Total Gardener

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              In ordinary times, a lot of European holiday destinations are popular with Russians. We don't need them all to travel outside of Russia, you just need enough of them to make a critical mass to take different opinions home. If one Russian stands up and says Russia is the aggressor, they won't be believed, and they'll likely vanish shortly after. If 100,000 Russians come back from their holidays with different news, that's much harder to disregard. Nobody has to be completely swayed in one go. It's simply a case of challenges people's views and getting them to think, and dig a bit deeper. But that won't happen now because we've done Putin a massive favour by effectively locking them in Russia, where their state media is their only source of information.
               
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              • JWK

                JWK Gardener Staff Member

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                I'm not so sure about that. We have befriended a few here, they come over to the University, they are just the same as any other nationality. Our daughter shared a house with her Russian friend for 3 years until her student visa ran out and there were no jobs due to covid, she had to go back to Russia. We are storing all her belongings as she wants to come back to work here long term as do many of her friends. The younger Russians are very Westernized in their thinking and are well aware of what's going on. They obviously can't speak out. I have met her Dad, slightly younger than me , like all Russian men he did his national service and served abroad in all sorts of places, the army life instills them with pride and a nationalist outlook missing in our society, I not saying that is good or bad but you need to understand that all families will have sons or uncles or dads in the army and wouldn't want anything bad to happen to them.

                They take foreign holidays as do many Russians, and laugh and joke about their politicians the same as us. If anything I would say the Russians I have met are better travelled and more aware about global affairs than the average American.
                 
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                • pete

                  pete Growing a bit of this and a bit of that....

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                  Not been to America for years but one thing I did notice back then was how isolated many were in their thinking.
                  The news programmes rarely showed any world news that didn't directly affect America.
                   
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                  • Clueless 1 v2

                    Clueless 1 v2 Total Gardener

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                    Remember years ago during one of the Balkans wars, I remember the news told of how the Americans had bombed a column of tanks that was advancing towards the refugees. A few days later news broke the intelligence was wrong, and they'd actually bombed a column of refugees with carts.

                    At the time, we had a friend who was living in America. He came back home for a visit about a year later, and was talking with glee about the US heroism of how they'd blitzed a whole column of tanks. Our other friends and I just sort of looked at eachother for a moment, trying to work out if it was some sort of sick joke, before one of us asked him if he'd not been following the news. He said he watched every day. It transpired that while US news was happy to report when they thought the military had done good, but had either not reported at all a few days later when they realised they'd actually bombed fleeing civilians, or it had been low profile enough that our friend didn't see it, and none of his friends in the US seemed to know about it.
                     
                  • pete

                    pete Growing a bit of this and a bit of that....

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                    That kind of thing goes on over here as well, it's called propaganda, I was mainly referring to news items that are not affecting America, so never got a mention even though the news programme was probably entitled world news.

                    Much as I'm not a fan of the BBC or ITN they do often have stories from around the world that have no direct bearing on this country. Sometimes far too many. :biggrin:
                     
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                    • Jocko

                      Jocko Guided by my better half.

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                      The population of Russia is 144 million. As I said before, the average Russian has never been much further than the next village or town, never mind travelling to a foreign country. Yes, we got students, and yes, we got some tourists, but only a tiny portion of the populace as a whole has ever travelled outside Russia (other than Syria, Afghanistan and now Ukraine).
                       
                    • clanless

                      clanless Total Gardener

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                      Putin has to go:

                      Putin official who left Russia in protest at war rushed to intensive care 'amid poisoning fears'

                      Video also circulating of a Russian piece of work torturing a Ukrainian soldier to death. The Russian torturer has been identified - the Ukrainian army are on the look out for him.
                       
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