Electric cars.

Discussion in 'Off-Topic Discussion' started by pete, Apr 7, 2021.

  1. gks

    gks Total Gardener

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    They very well might do. Chery EQ1 with a starting price of £8995

    chery.jpg
     
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    • Fat Controller

      Fat Controller 'Cuddly' Scottish Admin! Staff Member

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      I have mentioned before that I am currently in a PCP deal that finishes in a matter of months, so I do have a decision to make whether I like it or not. The price of used cars has gone up in the same way (or even more so) than new cars, partly because the supply of new cars isn't exactly stellar at the moment, with waits of 12+ months; this is apparently due to a shortage of semiconductors.

      EV's get a passing glance as I continue to browse, but to be honest there is very little that falls into the 'affordable' bracket, and those that do are not suitable (let alone likeable) for our wants and needs - - and yes, there is a deal of me being a bit picky, but when prices are sitting north of £18-20k (with the resulting monthly payments) for a used car, I feel I've got every right to be picky.

      However, my own experience with EV's, albeit on a larger scale, has put me off EV's almost entirely. The company I work for runs a large percentage of services using electric only buses; these things are circa £500k each (again with the associated lease/financing costs), have chassis that are built in China then shipped to the UK where bodies are built upon those chassis and then shipped out to the purchaser. Straight off the bat, not very 'eco' and not even great for those of us that disagree with the human rights standards of China....

      The upside of these vehicles:
      - Fairly swift (well, for a bus..)
      - Smooth acceleration
      - Quiet
      - No tailpipe emissions

      The downside:
      - No heating in the saloons (*)
      - Range reduces by circa 20% in the winter
      - When there is a powercut or fault, there is no alternative way to 'fuel' them up

      The latter two points resulted in us having to suspend one particular bus route at around 4pm on one day last week - - - in almost quarter of a century in the industry, I have never suspended a route in its entirety (I have done entire fleets due to snow, but not just an individual route in full). In fairness, there was a charging issue during the night on a couple of nights, but this has ricocheted on and the grief continues this week (I visited the garage in question on Monday and it was in a state of controlled chaos)

      Thankfully, I am no longer at the 'sharp end' sorting all of this stuff out, but suffice to say this has been an eye opener for me - if a fuel pump fails for diesel, hire a bowser and fill 'em up or worst case find a benevolent filling station that takes large vehicles and bend a credit card - electric give you zero options.

      (*) They do have an HVAC system of some sort, but it seems to be nothing more than blowers as there was no heat on any of the vehicles I travelled on; indeed, one of them in particular was so cold I was actually warmer standing at the bus stop waiting for the thing to arrive. Presumably, heating the things would sap so much power, they'd likely only be able to do half a day's worth of work.
       
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      • gks

        gks Total Gardener

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        Looking at its bigger brother, Chery EQ5 with a starting price of 20k and a 510km range, it would be something even I would look in to.

        cheryeq5.jpg
         
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        • Loofah

          Loofah Admin Staff Member

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          To be fair (not sure why), the world has sleep walked into the situation with China controlling manufacturing and controlling rare earth elements needed for all the demanded toys of the world. Ignored the obvious threat to global supply chains and here we are with few options outside of buying Chinese
           
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          • pete

            pete Growing a bit of this and a bit of that....

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            Because we are too concerned with being green, only part of the problem, but as time goes by it will get more and more, the west will cripple itself going green while the like of China will just carry on taking over the world.
             
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            • Loofah

              Loofah Admin Staff Member

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              I think the official line is that 'we' must be green, but the reality is that officialdom give zero craps about it. They're just hopeless and make bad deals because on the back of those deals are riders such as preferred terms on other deals and access to property markets.
              Cynical? Moi?
               
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              • shiney

                shiney President, Grumpy Old Men's Club Staff Member

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                I'm a Volvo fan and bought the first 240 in the country but not because I was a fan at the time. I know it was the first one as I bought it off the stand at the Motor Show at half price 'as seen'. I bought it because of the price and they were unable to give a date on delivery because there was a dock strike. It cost me the same price as it would to replace my Escort GT that was falling apart with rust!

                I bought my current one four years ago. At the time I wanted to buy one they were only making diesel and I complained to Volvo that I only wanted petrol so I was going to change make. Then the diesel scandal happened and the big news on pollution. So they actually wrote to me and asked me to hold off whilst they started producing petrol engines again. Ten months later I got one of the first new petrol ones, from China, and intend keeping it for as long as possible. In that ten months the price in the brochure had gone up three times :doh: but I had my written deal at the earlier price :)

                Now they only produce EV's and the price just four years later is more than double the price I paid. I certainly won't pay that sort of price.
                 
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                • Clueless 1 v2

                  Clueless 1 v2 Total Gardener

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                  Because the vast majority of people, at all levels of wealth and power, from struggling skint people to top executives and politicians all have one thing in common. They want things as cheap as possible and don't care why it's cheap.

                  China is in a solid position here. They have a huge population (ie a huge work force) of people they see as nothing more than expendable resources. When you have a lot of people to exploit, it becomes possible to do things very cheaply.
                   
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                  • Fat Controller

                    Fat Controller 'Cuddly' Scottish Admin! Staff Member

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                    That is the problem indeed; although, there are some manufacturers where they may be Chinese owned, but they still manufacture in other countries (Volvo being one) or there are manufacturers who are not Chinese but use their components to a greater or lesser extent.

                    For me, the best all rounders without being loaded with Chinese tech are the Koreans - Kia & Hyundai are doing some really good stuff at the moment. Sadly, the price tags match.
                     
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                    • Fat Controller

                      Fat Controller 'Cuddly' Scottish Admin! Staff Member

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                      The exploitation is the problem however, and if we in the west are not extremely careful we are about to sleep walk into a society where we are going to be similarly exploited. There are very strong links to the World Economic Forum throughout world governments and that, in my opinion, is a dangerous organisation.
                       
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                      • Jocko

                        Jocko Guided by my better half.

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                        China is not the devil everyone thinks. I was of a similar mind until I read "Tiger Head, Snake Tails: China today, how it got there and why it has to change", by Jonathan Fenby. An enlightening read.
                         
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                        • Fat Controller

                          Fat Controller 'Cuddly' Scottish Admin! Staff Member

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                          On that we will most definitely beg to differ. Their treatment of Uyghur Muslims, their treatment of people in Hong Kong and more recent examples of how they treated the workforce at an Apple Factory or citizens visiting a theme park tell me all I need to know, and that is their behaviours are abhorrent.
                           
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                          • pete

                            pete Growing a bit of this and a bit of that....

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                            I had a Chinese meal once.
                            It was enough to put me off China for a lifetime, sweet sticky goo mostly.
                             
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                            • Retired

                              Retired Some people are so poor all they have is money

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                              • JWK

                                JWK Gardener Staff Member

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                                I looked into getting a heat pump instead of a replacement gas boiler in September. It was made clear that they cost more to run so I declined.

                                They guy says he was spending £280 per month over the summer , that does seem odd as we and I think all others had their heating off. Heat pumps can be run in reverse to cool a house, like air conditioning so maybe he did that. He also says it might cost £7,000 for a year, I think many households will pay that and more depending on the house size, insulation level and number of occupants.

                                The amount he paid for his system suggests he lives in a big house and has plenty of spare cash. Running a log burner at the same time sounds like a bad design. I don't have much sympathy for him as his story doesn't stack up.
                                 
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