The cost of living... what can we do?

Discussion in 'Off-Topic Discussion' started by Fat Controller, Aug 26, 2022.

  1. shiney

    shiney President, Grumpy Old Men's Club Staff Member

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    They're only online. I also was with LV for a few years.
     
  2. pete

    pete Growing a bit of this and a bit of that....

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    I didn't know Luncheon Vouchers could provide car insurance.:scratch:
     
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    • Loofah

      Loofah Admin Staff Member

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      • shiney

        shiney President, Grumpy Old Men's Club Staff Member

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        They compare it to the better uptake in France but as the airpump system is nowhere as near good at heat production as gas boilers it doesn't surprise me that in our colder climate we're not so keen on the output figures.
         
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        • gks

          gks Total Gardener

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          Businesses are investigated and prosecuted if they make claims the products or services they are providing are "Green", and rightly so.

          Green claims on household basics investigated

          Yet, on the flip side of the coin, do they get investigated, by saying you will be financially better off when purchasing a "Green" product or services.

          The link below does prove heat pumps does cut down carbon emissions, but where is the the financial saving.

          https://www.installeronline.co.uk/w...ppliances-A-critical-investment-appraisal.pdf

          The government said they had no plans to mandate solar panels on new builds, I wonder why. Just like heat pumps, your savings are going to be minimal if any at all, unless gas and electric goes up even more, maybe that's the plan.
           
        • pete

          pete Growing a bit of this and a bit of that....

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          Going through my tiny mind.:biggrin:
          Plenty of places colder than here, do they use heat pumps?
          What about all the very green Scandinavian countries.
           
        • john558

          john558 Total Gardener

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          All new builds only passed if the include Solar Panels.
           
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          • shiney

            shiney President, Grumpy Old Men's Club Staff Member

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            Our solar panels are doing very well for us. :blue thumb: Their capital outlay was/is not that great when taking into account the government incentives. We were lucky that when we installed them we were eligible for FIT (feed in tariff) which pays us for all the electricity we produce. Since then there have been a number of different schemes from free installation to paying you for what you return to the national grid.

            We had our capital outlay covered in just over five years by the FIT and the amount of electricity we produce that we are able to use. We have averaged about 3,600 kWh per year so it's not an inconsiderable amount of production. Even in these last ten days we've produced 50 kWh.

            Of course, 'Green' doesn't necessarily mean efficient. :noidea:
             
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            • gks

              gks Total Gardener

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              I believe Norway has the most air sourced heat pumps per capita, just like they have the most EV's per capita. When you take into account the mandates, it's not a surprise. All forms of heating from fossil fuels in buildings was banned from 2020 and all new ICE cars will be from 2025. The government must of been offering very keen subsidies and with expensive fossil fuels over the years, explains the take up. I would of thought heat pumps will not be as efficient in colder climates though, surely they will need a back up source for heat, electric.

              In Feb 2021 the average cost per kWh in Norway was 0.61 NOK kr, about 5p, in August 2022 it had increased to 5.43 NOK kr, about 45p. The government announced a subsidy package of which they would pick up 55% of the bill over 0.70 NOK per kWh, they have since increased that subsidy to 80% but I think its capped on the consumption used. Seems a good subsidy but when you take into account Norway is ranked in the top 3 for most kWh consumption per capita, its maybe not that good after all.
               
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              • noisette47

                noisette47 Total Gardener

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                There is more than one kind of heat pump. The easiest to install and the ones the Brit and French Govs are pushing are air/air. I'd imagine in Scandinavia, true geothermal systems...water/water or refrigerant gas/water are much more popular. The air/air systems aren't the most efficient when the outside temps plummet, which is exactly when you need the heat. They become glorified electric heaters. Even our gas/water heat pump struggles after a week of negative temperatures. What the sales people (and Govs) don't mention is that heat pumps are powered by electricity, so ultimately, it is electric heating.
                 
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                • pete

                  pete Growing a bit of this and a bit of that....

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                  Yeah the electric consumption is something that hardly ever gets mentioned, especially at a time when we obviously don't have enough.
                   
                • JWK

                  JWK Gardener Staff Member

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                  When I was considering a heat pump last year the figures for electricity consumption were being touted as 1 unit of electric gives 4 units of heat. Making them on a par with gas boilers. When I dug a bit further looking at real world experiences, people were lucky to get a ratio of 1:3 and many were getting just 1:2. So here in the uk it was making heating a home twice as expensive as a gas boiler. I couldn't afford one.
                   
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                  • shiney

                    shiney President, Grumpy Old Men's Club Staff Member

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                    I've mentioned this before but our heating engineer (very good local reputation) has stopped installing air pump systems because some of his clients have said they weren't very efficient and three have already asked for them to be removed and gas boilers put in! Apparently they are more efficient if installed with underfloor heating but are not good with radiators unless they are oversized ones.
                     
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                    • gks

                      gks Total Gardener

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                      That's what I thought, but apparently it is the the air/air source that is most popular in Norway. I know houses in Norway are regarding as the best for insulation but I still can't get my head round the fact air/air is the most common source for heat.

                      How Norway Popularized an Ultra-Sustainable Heating Method (reasonstobecheerful.world)

                      The Heat Pump Market, Research and Policy in Norway (heatpumpingtechnologies.org)

                      I find the figures in this article very hard to believe. This owner must of had the worst insulated house in Norway if they were using 35,000 kWh per year to 8,500 kWh after fitting insulation and heat pumps. Does not say anything about solar, even though there is one clearly on the roof in the image. I just can't get my head round these figures and why air/air is so popular, especially now with high electric costs.
                       
                    • pete

                      pete Growing a bit of this and a bit of that....

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                      I'm seeing heat pumps to be the equivalent of those stupid light bulbs we were all forced to buy before LED ones became popular. :biggrin:
                       
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