Ukraine

Discussion in 'Off-Topic Discussion' started by clanless, Jan 22, 2022.

  1. pete

    pete Growing a bit of this and a bit of that....

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    I think its quite normal for special forces to be on the ground in any war zone that we get involved in, its not unusual.
    Now if they said they were in Russia, which they could be, that would be different and giving something away.
     
  2. redstar

    redstar Total Gardener

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  3. clanless

    clanless Total Gardener

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    Have you seen the video on Youtube - the Ukrainian soldiers preparing for the counter-attack?

    Each with the latest NATO standard armour and weaponry - backed up by Challenger 2 and Leopards. These are well armed and trained soldiers fighting for their homeland and families - let's just say I wouldn't like to be one of Putin's puppets in Ukraine.
     
  4. Clueless 1 v2

    Clueless 1 v2 Total Gardener

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    Sounds like Ukrainian propaganda. Meanwhile in Bahkmut they're describing a living hell as they gradually lose ground to the Russians, and leaked documents aside, they've been screaming out for more weapons and ammo for a while now. With Zelensky even admitting that there'll be no counter offensive without more western military aid, because they simply don't have the means to conduct one.

    It gets worse. If Ukraine runs out of air defence missiles, and analysts have estimated they are getting pretty low, then Russia will be free to claim air superiority. If that occurs then Ukraine has no chance of repelling Russia.
     
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    • pete

      pete Growing a bit of this and a bit of that....

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      Our national news programmes seem to have gone very quiet on Ukraine recently.

      Probably waiting until the Eurovision song contest is over. :biggrin:
       
    • Clueless 1 v2

      Clueless 1 v2 Total Gardener

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      Maybe I'm just a cynical old git, but I'm starting to wonder if the western strategy has been carefully planned for the best outcome for us.

      So we help Ukraine, I still think that's the right thing to do, but we only help in ways that avoid us being directly at war. I largely think that's right too.

      But the way I'm starting to see it, it's like someone made a safe bet.

      If Ukraine wins, then the west basically wins a lot of influence over and respect from Ukraine.

      If Ukraine loses, at least Putin didn't defeat the west, although he'd probably say that, at least most of us in the west won't feel like we we're defeated by Russia, so the politicians get to keep their jobs.

      If things escalate, and there is direct NATO involvement, then the stakes are a lot higher. Not just from the risk of strikes on Western turf, but because a loss or a stalemate tells the world that NATO is weak, and if NATO was winning, that's when Putin would press the infamous button.
       
    • pete

      pete Growing a bit of this and a bit of that....

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      Didn't this war start around 2013, and its been rumbling along for years.

      Just makes you wonder if it's going to rumble on for another 10 years of stalemate.
      From Russian point of view, Ukraine can't join NATO while they are at war, so Putin gets what he wants.
       
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      • Clueless 1 v2

        Clueless 1 v2 Total Gardener

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        It was 2014 but yes the point is valid of course.

        I'm not certain Putin gets what he wants though. It's a huge problem for him that Finland has joined. It now puts the bulk of his sea launched nukes within spitting distance of NATO. That kind of takes away a chunk of his nuclear capability, because Finland, now a NATO member, is close enough to watch for activity in that area. It also means that if NATO ever does have to fight Russia, they have a convenient route right up to Putin's front door.
         
      • pete

        pete Growing a bit of this and a bit of that....

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        Well we know the aim of Putin is to have less countries in NATO and it has backfired as far as Finland is concerned but I still think he sees Ukraine as being part of Russia I dont think he considered Finland as part of Russia.
         
      • Clueless 1 v2

        Clueless 1 v2 Total Gardener

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        Finland was actually invaded by Russia once in not too distant history. I was watching the latest DW News on the subject just the other day. I know news can be biased, but DW seems to be fairly objective. They were saying how in recent times Finland had a good relationship with Russia, but nonetheless, all young men do national service just in case. They interviewed random people in the street, the all said pretty much the same thing, that they normally see Russia as no threat, but after Russia invaded Ukraine, the popular opinion changed in Finland, they now hold the view that if Russia can invade Ukraine, then they are unpredictable.

        The key takeaway being that the people of Finland trusted Russia while they were relatively peaceful, but now feel that trust has gone.
         
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        • clanless

          clanless Total Gardener

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          It I were to guess, I reckon that 1 of 2 things will happen to end the war. Either Putin croaks it or he runs out of money.

          We dont see much of the real Putin because he is paranoid that people are out to get him. I dont think hes being paranoid.

          The Western strategy has been to give Putin a face saving off ramp. Hes not taking it so weapons deliveries are ramping up.
           
        • Clueless 1 v2

          Clueless 1 v2 Total Gardener

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          I must have missed that bit.
           
        • clanless

          clanless Total Gardener

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          More video, this time rows and rows of hardware lined up ready to go. Wagner saying that Uktaine soldiers and kit are everywhere. Wagner are about to place a large order for some brown trousers.

          Yes, keep back enough kit to give Putin a bloody nose and time to back out before the heavy kit gets to the front line. Its now clear that Putin is in this for the long term, or as long as he can fund it.

          Interesting that G7 are having a go at Putins electricity exports to cut off more war funding. Be interested to see how they are going to do it.

          I said at the beginning that the West should have gone in on the 25th Feb and kicked Putin out by force. Force is the only thing that he respects.
           
        • clanless

          clanless Total Gardener

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          Have you seen the satellite pictures of the Russian defence trenches? All on flat land with no natural structures to stop rockets or shells.:scratch:
           
        • pete

          pete Growing a bit of this and a bit of that....

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          Surely you dig in where you are, you dont go back in order to find a hill to hide behind, could end up giving away miles of ground like that.
          Thats why you dig trenches.
           
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