Renewable energy sources - the good, the bad and the ugly

Discussion in 'Off-Topic Discussion' started by Fat Controller, Mar 3, 2021.

  1. CanadianLori

    CanadianLori Total Gardener

    Joined:
    Sep 20, 2015
    Messages:
    10,180
    Occupation:
    Battle Axe
    Location:
    Oakville, Ontario, Canada Zone 5A
    Ratings:
    +33,259
    That is so ridiculous. You should be the one to use the power first and the overage then goes back into the grid. It's your home that hosts the collectors!
     
    Last edited: Feb 22, 2023
  2. JWK

    JWK Gardener Staff Member

    Joined:
    Jun 3, 2008
    Messages:
    32,930
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Surrey
    Ratings:
    +51,400
    It does seem daft. The reason is to protect engineers sent out to fix the fault, they switch off the power stations but the grid would still be live and dangerous otherwise.
     
    • Informative Informative x 2
    • Agree Agree x 1
    • gks

      gks Total Gardener

      Joined:
      Feb 28, 2021
      Messages:
      1,813
      Gender:
      Male
      Occupation:
      Production Manager
      Location:
      Cumbria
      Ratings:
      +5,131
      It was on the news this morning that many renewable projects are being paused or not getting off the ground due to long delays to connecting to the grid.

      It was saying how Torbay council have now been told that the 6 hectare solar plant that will be completed by next year will not be connected to the grid until 2028. The council was going to use some of the money raised by selling to the grid to fund other local projects but they are now likely to be delayed.

      Octupus energy have been told by the national grid that future renewable projects could have to wait nearly 15 years before being connected to the grid.

      UK national grid puts renewable projects on decade-long hold (power-technology.com)

      So the UK has the longest wait to connect renewables to the grid in Europe, yet we set out a mandate to ban gas boilers and the sale of ICE cars quicker than Europe :scratch:
       
      • Informative Informative x 3
      • Like Like x 1
      • Fat Controller

        Fat Controller 'Cuddly' Scottish Admin! Staff Member

        Joined:
        May 5, 2012
        Messages:
        28,366
        Gender:
        Male
        Occupation:
        Public Transport
        Location:
        At me 'puter, GCHQ Ashford Office, Middlesex
        Ratings:
        +53,404
        Those mandates will simply be kicked down the road, like everything else. Mostly, they were lobbed out with such ambitious schedules, to try and make those pesky protestors go away...
         
        • Agree Agree x 1
        • Friendly Friendly x 1
        • pete

          pete Growing a bit of this and a bit of that....

          Joined:
          Jan 9, 2005
          Messages:
          52,237
          Gender:
          Male
          Occupation:
          Retired
          Location:
          Mid Kent
          Ratings:
          +97,698
          Something the "just stop oil" mob should take into account.
          Crude distillation.jpg
           
        • Clueless 1 v2

          Clueless 1 v2 Total Gardener

          Joined:
          Jun 26, 2022
          Messages:
          2,038
          Gender:
          Male
          Ratings:
          +2,769
          I don't think any of that qualifies as 'surprising'.

          It's also a bit misleading. The 'residue', or sludge as they called it when I was over at the petrochemical site, is only that tiny fraction shown in the diagram when everything goes to plan. Surprisingly (perhaps) it doesn't always go to plan.

          The central part of the diagram represents what the lads at the site call the 'cracker'. It's basically a huge cylinder that is heated at one end and cooled at the other. The oil then splits into the constituent parts. Lots of things can and do go wrong. If either end is not at the correct temperature, they can either get a large batch of sludge, or too much gas (or both). Automated systems monitor this, as well as a team of engineers. If too much gas is produced, it becomes dangerous, so they vent the lot to the flare stack where it is simply burned. From a distance, a flare stack flaring looks like a big candle, unless they buy high pressure steam from another plant to mix it with (yes they buy steam), in which case it looks more like a jet engine with afterburners on, producing less visible soot but still the same co2.

          The oil in the cracker is only a fraction of the oil used in the process. A lot more is used to generate the huge amount of energy to actually run the cracker, remembering that it has to be heated to a very high, tightly regulated temperature at one end and cooled to a specific temperature at the other. Then of course there's the oil used for transportation, fuel which itself has been through the same lossy process.

          At the site near me, one of the products is plastic pellets. These are the ones that spill from bulk bags in transit and end up in the sea and all over the beaches. The frustrating part of the plastic side is that the oil comes to the UK by ship from halfway round the world, is made into plastic pellets (among other things) to be shipped to China, where it is made into plastic tat that is shipped to the UK, only to be discarded, and shipped half way round the world to be 'recycled'.

          That all sounds like I'm in cahoots with the just stop oil bunch. I'm absolutely not. In fact I hate them for the endless damage they're doing, not only to local economies and people's lives, but also to the environmental cause, as they have taken a real issue that people care about, and got people to associate this real issue with their highly disruptive stupidity.

          We are not ready to 'just stop oil'. Pretty much everything still depends on it. But if people understood the process a bit more, without causing untold chaos, maybe there'd be more determination to find innovative alternatives.
           
        • pete

          pete Growing a bit of this and a bit of that....

          Joined:
          Jan 9, 2005
          Messages:
          52,237
          Gender:
          Male
          Occupation:
          Retired
          Location:
          Mid Kent
          Ratings:
          +97,698
          I think its just more about its not just petrol and diesel that we get from oil so we will still need oil even when they have forced the last engine off the road, and we are all running around in super clean electric motors.

          Maybe not surprising, just thought it illustrates something.
           
          • Like Like x 1
          • Fat Controller

            Fat Controller 'Cuddly' Scottish Admin! Staff Member

            Joined:
            May 5, 2012
            Messages:
            28,366
            Gender:
            Male
            Occupation:
            Public Transport
            Location:
            At me 'puter, GCHQ Ashford Office, Middlesex
            Ratings:
            +53,404
            There is no thought process with those sort of folks though @pete
             
            • Agree Agree x 1
            • Clueless 1 v2

              Clueless 1 v2 Total Gardener

              Joined:
              Jun 26, 2022
              Messages:
              2,038
              Gender:
              Male
              Ratings:
              +2,769
              I'm not defending them for one second. As I've said before, I hate them for what they're doing. But in the interest of being objective, here's their 'about' info.

              'Just Stop Oil is a nonviolent civil resistance group demanding the UK Government stop licensing all new oil, gas and coal projects'

              So they're not saying they want to get rid of all oil. They want the government to not authorise any NEW oil, coal or gas projects.

              Personally, I could support that cause, except I can't, because the way they go about things, I don't want to be associated with any of that shenanigans.
               
            • pete

              pete Growing a bit of this and a bit of that....

              Joined:
              Jan 9, 2005
              Messages:
              52,237
              Gender:
              Male
              Occupation:
              Retired
              Location:
              Mid Kent
              Ratings:
              +97,698
              So basically they want us to import it.
               
              • Agree Agree x 1
              • Clueless 1 v2

                Clueless 1 v2 Total Gardener

                Joined:
                Jun 26, 2022
                Messages:
                2,038
                Gender:
                Male
                Ratings:
                +2,769
                I think they want us to reduce our use of it, by moving faster towards renewable energy, and cutting down on plastic waste. I'm speculating there. I don't actually know what they want. I just know that if I was the big cheese of an oil company, I'd absolutely love them for the way they've taken a legitimate cause that people care about, and made it all about them and the utter chaos they cause.
                 
                • Agree Agree x 1
                • Fat Controller

                  Fat Controller 'Cuddly' Scottish Admin! Staff Member

                  Joined:
                  May 5, 2012
                  Messages:
                  28,366
                  Gender:
                  Male
                  Occupation:
                  Public Transport
                  Location:
                  At me 'puter, GCHQ Ashford Office, Middlesex
                  Ratings:
                  +53,404
                  I have said for a long time that it is a matter of time before someone, at the very bottom in their life, decides that they have so little to lose that they are willing to lose it - - a truck driver, going through a divorce and losing his house at 60 years old whilst his mother is dying from terminal cancer and has just had a phone call from the landlord at his bedsit to tell him that his car has been towed by bailiffs... then these goons decide to block the road and prevent him from making his delivery (and he is already on a performance warning) and boom - a lot of great unwashed champagne socialists across the carriageway like orange bowling balls.
                   
                  • Agree Agree x 3
                  • gks

                    gks Total Gardener

                    Joined:
                    Feb 28, 2021
                    Messages:
                    1,813
                    Gender:
                    Male
                    Occupation:
                    Production Manager
                    Location:
                    Cumbria
                    Ratings:
                    +5,131
                    Oil consumption has always been on the up, but pushing the renewable agenda you could say our use of oil is firmly on the accelerator pedal.

                    According to Opec and other sources glodal oil consumption in 2019 was just shy of 98 million barrels per day. In 2020 it dropped to 88 million daily with 2022 back to the level of 2019. They reckon daily oil consumption now stands at 102 million barrels per day and it is forecast to continue to increase. It is the same with recycling, people don't really understand what a high energy demanding industry it is, so we reduce what goes to landfill but increase fossil fuel consumption in the process.

                    In 2022 the fuel rebate for many industries was abolished, with only the agriculture, horticulture, fisheries and forestry being exempt. But food needs packed, you have warehouse and distribution that process the food, there will be diesel powered folk lifts and back up generators, which now have to use full duty fuel. Now if I had to use full duty fuel to power my machines and for heating then at the current cost for diesel that would add 90% to my fuel bill.

                    You will have compost that states peat free and other goods and products that state made from a percentage of recycled material, which all sounds good and well until you start to do the number crunching and realise that by doing so it has actually increased our carbon footprint.
                     
                    • Like Like x 1
                      Last edited: May 13, 2023
                    • gks

                      gks Total Gardener

                      Joined:
                      Feb 28, 2021
                      Messages:
                      1,813
                      Gender:
                      Male
                      Occupation:
                      Production Manager
                      Location:
                      Cumbria
                      Ratings:
                      +5,131
                      Then you have these top lawyers that will defy the bar and will now not prosecute peaceful protestors. So peaceful blocking of a road, which could result in life and death if it prevents or delays the emergency services from getting through is deemed as peaceful protesting. I think over 100 top lawyers have now signed a pledge that they will not prosecute peaceful activists protesting against companies pursuing fossil fuel projects.
                       
                      • Agree Agree x 1
                      • gks

                        gks Total Gardener

                        Joined:
                        Feb 28, 2021
                        Messages:
                        1,813
                        Gender:
                        Male
                        Occupation:
                        Production Manager
                        Location:
                        Cumbria
                        Ratings:
                        +5,131
                        And yet, new plans have been revealed to build a £350 million data centre in Manchester that should be operational by late 2025 and will consumer 40MW, which is enough electric to power between 16,000 and 40,000 homes annually. I vote for new homes, the data centre can take a flying jump.
                         
                        • Like Like x 1
                        • Agree Agree x 1
                        Loading...

                        Share This Page

                        1. This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
                          By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.
                          Dismiss Notice