Hard ground!

Discussion in 'General Gardening Discussion' started by Surfer, Jun 27, 2023.

  1. pete

    pete Growing a bit of this and a bit of that....

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    I still maintain that you need to break up the hard pan of clay, just building raised beds, when that was not the intended outcome is kicking the can down the road.

    Also digging out a hole in the clay to plant and adding organic matter is just forming a winter sump in the clay if you are not careful.
     
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    • Palustris

      Palustris Total Gardener

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      The mulch was a mixture of leaf mould and really good garden compost. It has never gone into the 'soil' underneath. There are no worms in this garden.
       
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      • infradig

        infradig Gardener

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        • Fof

          Fof Gardener

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          Wow. I don't believe I have ever come across ground without worms, apart from rock, scree or swamp.
          I would be looking to acquire some and add. Soil NEEDS worms.
          Even the "concrete masquerading as soil" I had in Aus must have had them because once I added the large volumes of compost, they started to appear. They certainly didn't arrive in it, as it was usually still hot and steaming.
           
        • NigelJ

          NigelJ Total Gardener

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          Feel free to drop round with your worm charming kit, most of my garden is devoid of worms.
           
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          • pete

            pete Growing a bit of this and a bit of that....

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            Very few worms in my garden these days also, I agree there used to be lots and remember robins and blackbirds queuing up when digging, but dont see many these days apart from in the "lawn".
             
          • Fof

            Fof Gardener

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            That is down to the drought.
            During the dry spells, they estivate, a summer equivalent to hibernation.
            I do recall reading somewhere, that they can survive for months like this and once the ground gets sufficiently moist, they break their estivation.
            Edit
            In addition, if the drought is too prolonged, the adults can die off, but there will be plenty of eggs to repopulate from.
             
            Last edited: Jun 28, 2023
          • pete

            pete Growing a bit of this and a bit of that....

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            I'm talking about back in April when we had two months of heavy rain, they just dont seem to be around anymore in the number they used to be.
            Been a few years since I have found lots of them.

            The worms you find in compost are a different kind to the ones you find in normal soil.
             
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            • Selleri

              Selleri Koala

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              Important- do remember to take "before" photos before any work starts! :)

              I'd suggest to hire help to dig the whole border at least two spades deep and to remove the clay soil to one side so that you can backfill with a mix of it and loads of organic goodness (and use the remaining clay for pottery :biggrin:).

              A professional, or a local guy (ask in a Neighbourhood app or similar if you don't know anyone) or even a brisk youngster who wants to earn some pocket money.

              Once you have a decent, deep border the rest of the gardening will be a doddle.

              A badly started border will be a pain forever, and the lost plants will be expensive too.

              A deeply dug border behaves much better regarding water retention and drainage than isolated planting pockets. I have a good border in the back and a planting hole bed in the front, it's like two different worlds. Needless to say, I'm also on a nightmare clay. BTW, Clay is very nutrient rich so once you have loads of organic matter mixed in it's wonderful. :)
               
            • Fof

              Fof Gardener

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              Pete
              I would hazard a guess that after last year's drought, a large proportion of the adults died off, and there hasn't been sufficient time for the population to rebuild.
              Down here in W Cornwall, we were slapped with a hosepipe ban last autumn, which is still in force, and we have had very little rain since. I admit I have occasionally been a bit naughty, but in my beds, which were built using 100% compost, as in my previous posts, the sub-soil moisture is still sufficient for the plantings but the number of worms has decreased quite a lot. Outside the beds, I would expect to find very few, if any.
              I have few worries, as I believe that once Gabriel gets back to tickling the angels, the worms will do what they and rabbits do well:ccheers::imphrt::imphrt::imphrt::imphrt::ccheers:.
               
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                Last edited: Jun 28, 2023
              • Palustris

                Palustris Total Gardener

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                I was given a bucket of compost worms which I sprinkled on the heap. The next time I turned it over, not one of them was to be found. No woodlice here either.
                 
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                • pete

                  pete Growing a bit of this and a bit of that....

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                  I bought a mantis tiller about 15 yrs ago and after a few years I started to think that it was killing off the worms.
                  I've not used it for the last 5 yrs and there are still very few worms.
                  They are just not there anymore.
                   
                • infradig

                  infradig Gardener

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                  Minced!!
                  No-dig gardeners have lots of worms
                   
                • pete

                  pete Growing a bit of this and a bit of that....

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                  That was my thinking but no change since I stopped using it, as I say my lawn is full of worms, worm casts all over in wet spells.
                  But the veg garden nearly none.
                   
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                  • Drahcir

                    Drahcir Gardener

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                    Absolutely. A bit of lime is worthwhile too ("flocculation"), although it's horrendously expensive now (about £10/25kg).
                     
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