Ukraine

Discussion in 'Off-Topic Discussion' started by clanless, Jan 22, 2022.

  1. Clueless 1 v2

    Clueless 1 v2 Total Gardener

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  2. pete

    pete Growing a bit of this and a bit of that....

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    I think Zalensky was pushing his luck thinking Ukraine would be allowed full membership of NATO while this war is still going on.
    The statement that he should be more grateful for the help his country has been given is probably just a poor choice of words, but sometimes you have to be blunt.
     
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    • Clueless 1 v2

      Clueless 1 v2 Total Gardener

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      There should be a 'mostly agree' button.:biggrin:

      Yes, no doubt a poor choice of words. If I'd said it, or pretty much anyone else, fair enough. But when a high profile minister says it in a high profile meeting, the words should have been very carefully thought out.

      I'm not knocking Ben Wallace for what he said. He's kind of right. Zelensky has slightly annoyed me in recent weeks with his constant digs at his backers. I think it might have been better if a conversation had been had about it behind closed doors. There will no doubt be people in the UK who don't want us to send weapons to Ukraine. I don't think it was wise to feed such thoughts. Maybe even more importantly, I don't think it was wise to give Putin's side any indication that Ukraine's allies might be starting to lose patience with them.
       
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      • pete

        pete Growing a bit of this and a bit of that....

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        I noticed at one point Sunak asked everyone to leave the room while he had a one to one with Zalensky, we will never know what was said but it might have been about how tensions were rising.
         
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        • Clueless 1 v2

          Clueless 1 v2 Total Gardener

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          The Kerch bridge, linking Russia to Crimea has been blown up again.

          Crimea bridge: Russia blames new Crimea bridge attack on Ukraine - BBC News

          Unfortunately they've failed to close it completely. It's an important supply route used by Russia to resupply their front lines in Ukraine. If the Ukrainians could close it completely that would give them a significant boost. But I think even just demonstrating that it's vulnerable must have some psychological impact.

          The latest news, for all the positive spin some outlets are trying to put on it, is that the Ukrainian counter offensive is not going very well. The Russians are just too bedded in. On some fronts, there is an expanse of flat open ground between Russian defensive positions and Ukrainian forces. The Russians don't have to move. The Ukrainians on the other hand have to cross open territory where they are clearly visible and exposed. This is where air support would prove useful, if only they had the F16s they keep asking for. Perhaps if they refocus on the Kerch bridge to limit Russian resupply and maybe even encourage the Russians to move their forces then maybe they could make some headway.
           
        • Drahcir

          Drahcir Gardener

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          These seem to be obsolescent, and that may be overstating the case. Neither side normally risk aircraft anywhere near "the front". The other side just shoot them down.

          The face of warfare seems to have changed a very great deal. The same also seems to go for tank warfare and naval operations as goes for aircraft.
           
        • Clueless 1 v2

          Clueless 1 v2 Total Gardener

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          We all thought warfare had changed. Yet here we are reading about tank battles in Europe, and soldiers in trenches.

          Aircraft have more uses than just attacking front lines. They can force an enemy to focus on defending in places other than the front line, taking resources away from the front, and giving planners a lot more to think about.
           
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          • pete

            pete Growing a bit of this and a bit of that....

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            Often with aircraft it's not about the plane it's the systems that they can operate, even F16s are getting long in the tooth these days still very capable but they probably won't be getting the whole package.
            Modern aircraft don't usually operate as a single unit but various types some with just jamming equipment often miles away from the battlefield and unseen.
            I don't see it as a high tech war, it's a kind of mix between modern and old.

            In some ways it's better if it stays that way I think.

            Probably Biden and Zalensky, are hoping the cluster bombs will sort out the Russian trenches.
             
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            • clanless

              clanless Total Gardener

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              It looks like Taiwan are sending all of their old 'Hawk' anti aircraft missile systems to Ukraine. They are old systems but there is strength in numbers. Ukraine will receive enough systems, it seems, to cover the entire border between Ukraine proper and the temporarily occupied Ukrainian territories.

              Another couple of Storm Shadows sent to the Crimean bridge would be useful - just to finish the job off.
               
            • Clueless 1 v2

              Clueless 1 v2 Total Gardener

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              Have they got newer kit ready to go? Taiwan is itself under constant threat.
               
            • clanless

              clanless Total Gardener

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              US are buying them back from Taiwan and then giving them to Ukraine. Taiwan has new kit to replace the Hawks which are 60 years old. Taiwan are technically advanced and make their own kit to replace Hawks. This is why China want Taiwan, they want the technology.
               
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              • clanless

                clanless Total Gardener

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                If I was a Comrade in Crimea - I'd think about leaving while the bridge is still driveable.

                More than 2,000 residents are being evacuated from four villages in Russian-occupied Crimea after a fire that triggered hours of explosions at a nearby ammunition depot.
                 
              • Clueless 1 v2

                Clueless 1 v2 Total Gardener

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                I agree. But the Russian people are either stupid, brainwashed, or both. I was reading earlier how they're still head to Crimea for their summer holidays.
                 
              • Loofah

                Loofah Admin Staff Member

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                Brainwashed and might be arrested for leaving?
                 
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                • clanless

                  clanless Total Gardener

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                  Recent quote from John about cluster munition use in Ukraine:

                  "They are using them appropriately," Mr Kirby said. "They're using them effectively and they are actually having an impact on Russia's defensive formations and Russia's defensive manoeuvring. I think I can leave it at that."

                  They may be banned in many countries - but this is Putin - he will stop at nothing - he has no soul.

                  Saw last night that Putin is offering to replace Ukrainian grain with Russian - he's desperate for cash.
                   
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