Renewable energy sources - the good, the bad and the ugly

Discussion in 'Off-Topic Discussion' started by Fat Controller, Mar 3, 2021.

  1. Loofah

    Loofah Admin Staff Member

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    • pete

      pete Growing a bit of this and a bit of that....

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    • Clueless 1 v2

      Clueless 1 v2 Total Gardener

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    • Fat Controller

      Fat Controller 'Cuddly' Scottish Admin! Staff Member

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      Now, imagine if a country like the UK had the wit to build storm drains that ran all year at a very low level fed by grey water (not sewerage) from specific grey water recovery only and also fed under our towns and cities so that rainwater could run off into them from streets, gutters etc and thus not overwhelm current sewers and where those storm drains were outside the city zones they could be canal style with solar panels atop them - not only would this help energy production, but also flooding and stop the abhorrent practice of releasing sewerage into the sea - plus, if done correctly, those water transporting canals/aqueducts could be put under roads if the area surrounding them became built up in later years. The grey water could be transported to massive pools with some natural and sedimentary filtration (we could call them reservoirs ;)) before then being re-processed into potable water where needed to take stress off the water supply.
      All we would need then is some sort of chemical process where that electricity and water could also be used to make some sort of hydroxide compound that could be dry stored in summer and then dissolved/activated in winter to release hydrogen to fuel home boilers for heating...

      See - if "the science" was able to come up with things like this instead of concentrating on ramping up the fear porn on TV weather reports, we might just get somewhere.
       
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      • pete

        pete Growing a bit of this and a bit of that....

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        Maybe if we knocked everything thing down and started again it would be feasible, it's a bit late now.
        We can only keep trying to catch up.

        Just watching the news and they appear to have a similar sewage problem as we do in France.
        I saw a programme, probably a few years old now, and I think they were in Detroit USA, and they were playing catch up on stopping sewage getting in the lakes.
         
      • Fat Controller

        Fat Controller 'Cuddly' Scottish Admin! Staff Member

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        No need to knock everything down, although accepted that there may be some things would need to be knocked down to accommodate - done in stages, every little area that had even rainwater from the streets taken away to reservoirs and not via the sewers would help water storage/capacity, relieve flooding and also help with energy production. Hell, done right, it could even be dual reservoirs at different heights with solar panels up the sides and then have hydro-electric power stations incorporated that are reverse-pump capable (as per the Cruachan model) where those solar panels produce most (if not all) of the power required to run the pumps to pump the water back up to the header reservoir.

        The thing is, we can wring our hands and squeal about the environment etc, but until we grasp nettles like this we are not going to achieve anything. Currently, environmental pollcy seems to be little more than an excuse to batter the taxpayer financially for having the temerity to run a car to get to work or heat their home in winter. Until we invest in actually doing something...
         
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        • pete

          pete Growing a bit of this and a bit of that....

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          Really you would have to dig up every road in the country and lay new sewers to every household.
          Then alter all the plumbing in those houses.
          It could be done on a smaller scale with all new developments.
           
        • Fat Controller

          Fat Controller 'Cuddly' Scottish Admin! Staff Member

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          You potentially would, but there is no rule that says it would have to be done all at the same time - it could be programmed in with other works over many years. As you rightly say, start with new developments
           
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          • Fat Controller

            Fat Controller 'Cuddly' Scottish Admin! Staff Member

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            My only dismay is that we are throwing ourselves at bans such as the 2030 ban on ICE, or the latest gambit being mooted where Scots folk won't be able to sell their house if it has a gas boiler etc... purely because there has been barely more than zero put into suitable alternatives.

            If our governments had built LOADS of nuclear power stations and also had LOADS of solar/wind generation to the point that we had spare capacity in the grid, coupled with a plan for charging networks and to make electricity cheap enough for people to be able to heat their homes either with an electric boiler or with dry electric heating or with heat pumps.... then people would naturally move to electric cars/heating etc. Electric cars have reached a point that they make a fairly good argument for themselves, what lets them down is the charging network and in turn that is let down by grid capacity (which is woefully inadequate). We have, to all intents and purposes, jumped out of the plane and are now looking for someone to make us a parachute.
             
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            • Clueless 1 v2

              Clueless 1 v2 Total Gardener

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              I think the best way to improve energy efficiency at a national level would be to adopt a system not entirely dissimilar to income tax.

              I won't go into unit price because it makes the calculations a faff. So let's go with the typical headline figure of energy costing the average household say £3,500 per year.

              So, each household gets a fixed number of units that are charged at a maximum rate of the energy price cap guarantee or whatever it's called. After they've used their quota in a given year, any more units on top of that attract a tax of 20%

              If you go over say £6,000 per year, then units are taxed at 40%

              The revenue raised from the tax goes towards energy efficiency schemes available to anyone.

              So why do I think this would be good?

              Well, it would mostly affect the wealthy with bigger homes who might feel it necessary to heat every room, whether it's in use or not. The average Joe would be unaffected, unless their house is really knackered, in which case they could apply for a grant to improve its efficiency. Wealthy folks would also be eligible for such grants, if they have big old houses for example. There's no point penalising anyone for being inefficient, unless they don't care that their home or their habits are inefficient.

              Why won't it work?

              Because the people most likely to pay a higher rate are likely to be the ones that have more influence over policy decisions.
               
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              • Fat Controller

                Fat Controller 'Cuddly' Scottish Admin! Staff Member

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                I'd much rather start with having those folks who are on pre-payment meters or those who pay bill on receipt put onto unit prices that are exactly the same as the unit prices for those who pay by direct debit. I'd also get rid of standing charges completely - unit price should reflect all of the costs involved... Iceland don't ask you for £30 a month just for the pleasure of shopping with them, but make their money on their prices.

                Government backed insulation schemes - either by grant for those in receipt of benefits or pension, or those below certain income levels. Interest free finance over quite a long term to make it affordable for those who can afford it and make it law that no landlord could refuse a tenant from having the work done whether that was by grant or paying for it.
                 
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                • pete

                  pete Growing a bit of this and a bit of that....

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                  Be interested to know what these insulation schemes involve, everyone seems to think they are the answer to the problem, but I'm not sure how effective they would be in most houses.
                   
                • Fat Controller

                  Fat Controller 'Cuddly' Scottish Admin! Staff Member

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                  I don't think the are the answer, but I think they would help some folks - - I for one am quite keen on the idea of keeping pensioners and vulnerable folks warm enough that they are comfortable and don't develop needless illnesses....
                   
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                  • pete

                    pete Growing a bit of this and a bit of that....

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                    I just wonder how far insulation would go in achieving that, I guess there are some really old houses that dont have any insulation but there has been cavity wall insulation and loft insulation going on for about 40 yrs now, and grants to get it done for free.
                    Is that the kind of thing the politicians are talking about, or is it something more.:scratch:

                    You still need to put the heat in, an insulated house is as cold as any house if you cant heat it, in fact under certain circumstances it can be colder.
                     
                  • Fat Controller

                    Fat Controller 'Cuddly' Scottish Admin! Staff Member

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                    I reckon it would make a significant difference - especially if they got really clever and did some sort of raised floor that could go on top of concrete floors but under carpets/underlay/laminate etc. Taking a fairly recent comparison I had.. my own house, cavity wall insulated except the front wall of the house, concrete floors, and in my opinion in need of some improvement in loft insulation. For us to be comfortable, we need to have our thermostat set at 23 - 23.5ºc; yet, visiting my mum back in March, when her heating came on, 20ºc was comfortable... 21ºc was getting uncomfortably warm. Her house also held that temperature for a good number of hours, whereas ours under the same conditions would be a 2-3 at best. Whilst the drive north took a good handful of hours, I am sure my body didn't change and I also know for sure that the temps in Edinburgh area were lower than they are here in Ashford, so I can only conclude that her house is better insulated than ours.

                    Our house is by no means the worst either - I've definitely been in houses a lot worse than ours.

                    EDIT - the caveat here is that for some folks it wouldn't make a jot of difference, hence it shouldn't be mandated to be done, but it should be supported and should be part of a range of things we do, if we are actually serious about claiming that there is a crisis and we want to address it.
                     
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