Electric cars.

Discussion in 'Off-Topic Discussion' started by pete, Apr 7, 2021.

  1. pete

    pete Growing a bit of this and a bit of that....

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    I find it really weird as for the first time no one appears to be doing public surveys to find out what people actually want just what they will impose on you.
    I'm thinking the second hand market will go through the roof at some point before they finally work out how to make an EV that people like, ie. one people find acceptable and value for money.
    And dont mean paying through the nose for it and having to buy a bike to get to work.
     
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    • Fat Controller

      Fat Controller 'Cuddly' Scottish Admin! Staff Member

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    • Jocko

      Jocko Guided by my better half.

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      The MG4 is comparable in price to ICE cars of a similar size and standard. Many people are keen to change. My brother bought a PHEV with a view to going BEV next time and after a few weeks, he is so delighted with the EV performance that he says he will never have another car with an ICE in it.
       
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      • Fat Controller

        Fat Controller 'Cuddly' Scottish Admin! Staff Member

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        That is the thing that many folk really don't like here, is that it is all being done by force/mandate and at the same time, a lot of questions are simply going without answer. There is little opportunity to have grown up conversations about people's very real concerns and the risks involved as there is an almost cult like evangelism surrounding EV's. Don't get me wrong, there are some EV's that are quite likeable - the real issue is that a lot of the sums and promises do not add up in reality (I have first hand of that on a fairly grand scale)
         
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        • pete

          pete Growing a bit of this and a bit of that....

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          I keep having to google all these BEV, PHEW stuff, I've only recently worked out what an ICE is, ( proper engine), and it has nothing to do with sinking the Titanic.
          Phew, MG4 , presumably nothing to do with the old British MG company.
           
        • Fat Controller

          Fat Controller 'Cuddly' Scottish Admin! Staff Member

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          Only the brand name - purchased out of the ashes by a Chinese company. Can't say I am a fan of the MG4, odd looking thing.. much prefer a Kia EV6 or Hyundai Ioniq 5
           
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          • pete

            pete Growing a bit of this and a bit of that....

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            This is what I'm not keen about, using old well know names and iconic ones at that for something that is nothing like it was.
            MG is dead, and calling somthing like that an MG does nothing for it.

            I saw an electric Mustang the other day and I think it had a horse on the front of it, exciting, not.
            Call it a thunderbolt or something electric sounding, but dont try selling this stuff with old names, it wont work.
            And for the ones that think that a couple of letters and a number is going to "spark" peoples imagination, that wont work either.

            Hyundai Ioniq 5 how the hell do you pronounce that one.
             
          • Fat Controller

            Fat Controller 'Cuddly' Scottish Admin! Staff Member

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            That is where Ford have really gone wrong - first, they didn't have any real plan for electric, but at the same time also started to reduce their engine manufacture (presumably because they knew the mandates that were looming) - they tried to follow the pack with SUV's and to be fair the likes of the Kuga seemed to to a fairly good job of it, but their styling folks seemed to lose any form of imagination and they just started churning out fairly generic stuff and hoped that by slapping well known model names like Puma, Capri and Mustang that the cache of those models would carry them through. Worse still, the engines that they started fitting (EcoBoost, or EcoBoom as they are known in the trade) are little more than a liability for the customer. I know of someone who paid £1700 for a timing belt to be done, much earlier than it was due, simply to try and get some peace of mind. I was speaking to someone last week who had a Transit, 28000 miles and the engine grenaded leaving him at the side of the road and subsequently £7k worse off to replace the engine. He had signed on the dotted for a new Mercedes having traded the Transit in and understandably vows never to touch Ford ever again.

            As for the MG - it isn't the MG of old, but in fairness neither was the Rover MG's that we were seeing in the latter years. They are 'budget' and those that have them seem to like them, which is all that matters. I, personally, don't like them but it is horses for courses.

            Ioniq 5 is pronouced like iconic but remove the first c...
             
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            • pete

              pete Growing a bit of this and a bit of that....

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              Maybe so, but what happened to marketing products, they just look and are marketed as downright boring, they all look the same for starters, do we have 4x4 versions, do we have sports versions that are priced not for the millionaire, is there a two seater that doesn't look like a disabled carriage from the 60s.

              The only thing that separates EV s is range, lets get trying to sell this dung, and not just get bogged down with the boring part, we know they arn't any good for long distance driving, a pain and slow to charge, but lets look at the good bits, like cables laying across pathways and all the other trip hazards. :smile::biggrin:
               
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              • Fat Controller

                Fat Controller 'Cuddly' Scottish Admin! Staff Member

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                Therein lies part of the discussions that need to be had - yes, it is feedstock for so many things including plastics, pharmaceuticals and cosmetics amongst others; all of the raw materials for these come off as various fractions from the oil thereby making each fraction economical to produce. If there is a mass reduction in consumption of the gasoline and diesel/heavy oil, the other fractions will have to 'absorb' the cost - so the cost of all of those will rise; plus, the unused fractions will no longer have a market to sell them, so how will they be used?

                Will oil use reduce? Almost certainly. Will there be any positive impact on the environment? Maybe at a local level, but overall doubtful especially given the number of coal fired power stations China is opening to allow them to produce goods to sell to those of us who are being daft enough to financially hang ourselves. Is electric the solution? No - it is part of it, but I don't believe it is the only solution. Those other solutions will never be found here in Europe however, as we've been too busy tying ourselves up in legislation and signalling our virtue to be able to afford to innovate. The other solutions will come from China, South Korea and Japan.
                 
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                • Jocko

                  Jocko Guided by my better half.

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                  Saw a piece on the news where they are doing that with electric scooters in Taipei in Taiwan. This is forward-thinking. This battery-swapping scooter aims to clean up cities
                  The thing with cars is you can now charge an EV quicker than they could possibly swap out a battery.
                  I watched a Carwow video where they drove two EVs from Inverness to London and they spent only an hour charging on the journey. The Audi e-tron arrived with 46 miles of range left.

                   
                • Fat Controller

                  Fat Controller 'Cuddly' Scottish Admin! Staff Member

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                  I don't think we will, purely because we've painted ourselves into a position of reliance rather than one where we can be competitive.
                   
                • burnie

                  burnie Total Gardener

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                  Scotland is currently trialling a hydrogen powered train, they seem to be making lots of it in the refinery, I reckon that will last longer than ev's as it seems the current rate of battery manufacture will see lithium all used up in less than 10 years, I won't be buying an ev.
                   
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                  • Fat Controller

                    Fat Controller 'Cuddly' Scottish Admin! Staff Member

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                    For a car costing north of £115k, I would expect it to do well. From CarWow:

                    upload_2023-8-17_9-54-36.png

                    Therein is the current problem - to be able to afford EV, you are being boxed into something like an MG as anything else is not affordable.
                     
                  • Jocko

                    Jocko Guided by my better half.

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                    I stand corrected. However. Unless manufacturers settle on a one size fits all system you would need a myriad of different units for different cars. The Nio stations can only do one car at a time and only carry 13 batteries so if you roll up as number 14 you will have to wait on battery number 1 charging. I see it as a possible solution but not as the answer to EV charging problems.

                     
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