The cost of living... what can we do?

Discussion in 'Off-Topic Discussion' started by Fat Controller, Aug 26, 2022.

  1. JWK

    JWK Gardener Staff Member

    Joined:
    Jun 3, 2008
    Messages:
    32,100
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Surrey
    Ratings:
    +48,991
    We briefly considered swapping to a heat pump last year but the install and running costs would have made us worse off. We have wet under floor heating which is ideal for the low temps that a heat pump provide. We didn't have a big enough sized hot water cylinder though and installing a new one was prohibitive. I now realise we could have had just a heat pump doing central heating and using our solar panels to heat the existing water cylinder. It might have resulted in a system with running costs the same as gas.
     
    • Informative Informative x 2
    • Like Like x 1
    • gks

      gks Total Gardener

      Joined:
      Feb 28, 2021
      Messages:
      1,710
      Gender:
      Male
      Occupation:
      Production Manager
      Location:
      Cumbria
      Ratings:
      +4,947
      Maybe they are, but are the heat pumps there only source of heat?
      Wood burning stoves has always been very common in Norway, how many residential homes are still burning wood as a back up source for heat?, they reckon over 50% of households still have wood burning stoves in Norway.

      Norway banned the burning of gas and oil boilers in new builds from 2020, with the government offering very good subsidies in heat pumps, which is probably financed by their huge exports of gas and oil.

      If they are so efficient with an abundance of green electric then why did the government subsidize their citizens by 55% on electricity during the winter months in the last 2 years

      Finland and Estonia are rich in peat, how many households are still burning peat as a source of heat? They reckon 1 in 7 households in Ireland still burn peat as a source of heat.

      So, all these Nordic nations might well have a higher rate per capita of heat pumps, but how many are heat pump independent to heat there homes?
       
      • Informative Informative x 2
      • Like Like x 1
      • gks

        gks Total Gardener

        Joined:
        Feb 28, 2021
        Messages:
        1,710
        Gender:
        Male
        Occupation:
        Production Manager
        Location:
        Cumbria
        Ratings:
        +4,947
        The uptake it these countries will be down to, government policies and alternatives.
        There is over 20 million households connected to mains gas in the UK, very few if any will be connected to mains gas in Scandinavian countries, they are more likely to be connected to the district heating system, especially in urban areas.

        The main source of energy for households will be electricity, then probably wood, then coke, oil and kerosene, they do have a high taxation on fossil fuels.

        If electricity has been there main source of energy and Norway is supposed to be the role model for efficiency and green energy then why the surge in the uptake of heat pumps?
        Well the electricity in certain regions is not as cheap anymore and reports say that demand for electricity could outstrip supply by 2027.

        They reckon the average household in Norway consumes 20,000 kWh of energy, if you were only connected to electricity that would of made there annual bill around the 9k mark when electricity went up tenfold, hence why the government subsidised the bills by 55% up to 5,000 kWh consumption.

        If gas and electric in the UK was to increase tend fold then I am sure there would be far more heat pumps being installed. Carrot and stick policies and expensive alternatives is the driving force of heat pumps in the Nordic countries.
         
        • Like Like x 2
        • pete

          pete Growing a bit of this and a bit of that....

          Joined:
          Jan 9, 2005
          Messages:
          50,489
          Gender:
          Male
          Occupation:
          Retired
          Location:
          Mid Kent
          Ratings:
          +92,087
          A house across the back of mine appears to have a heat pump, originally I thought it was an air con unit hanging on the wall, but now I think it must be a heat pump.

          So why do I see smoke rising from their chimney during the winter, most people around here are on gas boilers for central heating, very few use the old chimneys on the houses, most are capped off or used as vents for gas appliances.
           
        • JWK

          JWK Gardener Staff Member

          Joined:
          Jun 3, 2008
          Messages:
          32,100
          Gender:
          Male
          Location:
          Surrey
          Ratings:
          +48,991
        • pete

          pete Growing a bit of this and a bit of that....

          Joined:
          Jan 9, 2005
          Messages:
          50,489
          Gender:
          Male
          Occupation:
          Retired
          Location:
          Mid Kent
          Ratings:
          +92,087
          Possibly, solid fuel of some kind but it suggests that the thing on the wall doesn't do the whole job, either internal heating or water heating.
           
        • shiney

          shiney President, Grumpy Old Men's Club Staff Member

          Joined:
          Jul 3, 2006
          Messages:
          62,942
          Gender:
          Male
          Occupation:
          Retired - Last Century!!!
          Location:
          Herts/Essex border. Zone 8b
          Ratings:
          +122,466
          I suppose that all these things are also affected by whether you feel the cold a lot and, therefore, need a higher temperature in the cold weather. We have found that as we reach our more senior years :old: we need the internal temperature higher than we used to. I'm a delicate mortal :heehee:
           
        • NigelJ

          NigelJ Total Gardener

          Joined:
          Jan 31, 2012
          Messages:
          6,612
          Gender:
          Male
          Occupation:
          Mad Scientist
          Location:
          Paignton Devon
          Ratings:
          +22,571
          A Norwegian friend of mine did comment last year that electricity had gone up in cost due to a lack of rain leading to a drop in hydro electric generation. When the rains came the price dropped back down as hydro electric generation went up.
           
          • Informative Informative x 2
          • gks

            gks Total Gardener

            Joined:
            Feb 28, 2021
            Messages:
            1,710
            Gender:
            Male
            Occupation:
            Production Manager
            Location:
            Cumbria
            Ratings:
            +4,947
            True, the lack of water for hydro power was one factor for rising electricity costs.

            I know electric prices fluctuate hourly in Norway, the same happens with fuel as late Sunday evening to early Monday morning is when fuel at the pumps tends to be the cheapest.

            Current cost per kWh in Oslo for electric.

            ⚡️ Electricity prices in Oslo (euenergy.live)

            Why do they have more heat pumps per capita when electric can be so cheap?
             
          • noisette47

            noisette47 Total Gardener

            Joined:
            Jan 25, 2013
            Messages:
            6,312
            Gender:
            Female
            Location:
            Lot-et-Garonne, Aquitaine
            Ratings:
            +15,336
            Because heat pumps augment and maximise the electricity that they use?? :-)
             
            • Agree Agree x 1
            • Informative Informative x 1
            • pete

              pete Growing a bit of this and a bit of that....

              Joined:
              Jan 9, 2005
              Messages:
              50,489
              Gender:
              Male
              Occupation:
              Retired
              Location:
              Mid Kent
              Ratings:
              +92,087
              Once they completely cover the the UK in windmills we will probably be as cheap as Norway, I dont think, because they will still link the price to gas.
               
              • Agree Agree x 1
              • gks

                gks Total Gardener

                Joined:
                Feb 28, 2021
                Messages:
                1,710
                Gender:
                Male
                Occupation:
                Production Manager
                Location:
                Cumbria
                Ratings:
                +4,947
                I see Roland (Rishi) has announced the delays on the governments green policies. Grants for the boiler upgrade scheme will be increased by 50% to £7500, which might encourage more households to research heat pumps as this increase in grants should reduce the payback period.
                 
              • Loofah

                Loofah Admin Staff Member

                Joined:
                Feb 20, 2008
                Messages:
                13,646
                Gender:
                Male
                Location:
                Guildford
                Ratings:
                +23,866
                The shift in date for new petrol and diesel cars doesn't seem that helpful as manufacturers will have put some planning into place for 2030. Ah well. Labour say they'll just do the opposite of the blues so plenty of effort put in to their strategizing :roflol:
                The yellows want to scrap housing targets so once again miss what's happening around them and having a totally different conversation
                 
              • JWK

                JWK Gardener Staff Member

                Joined:
                Jun 3, 2008
                Messages:
                32,100
                Gender:
                Male
                Location:
                Surrey
                Ratings:
                +48,991
                Octopus are lowering my electric and gas rates from 1st October. Should save us around £200 a year.
                 
                • Like Like x 3
                • gks

                  gks Total Gardener

                  Joined:
                  Feb 28, 2021
                  Messages:
                  1,710
                  Gender:
                  Male
                  Occupation:
                  Production Manager
                  Location:
                  Cumbria
                  Ratings:
                  +4,947
                  I did a online quote with Octopus and was quoted the following on a standard variable tariff.

                  Gas 6.9p per kWh standing charge 27.47p a day
                  Electric 27.21p per kWh standing charge 49.77p a day

                  Now according to their website regarding heat pumps

                  Gas Boiler with 9653 kWh annual heat demand @ 85% efficiency would have an annual energy usage of 11700kWh which would cost £907 at the above gas rates plus standing charge, ex Vat

                  A heat pump with 9653 kWh annual heat demand @ 300% efficiency would have an annual energy usage of 3218 kWh would cost £1057 at the above electric rates plus standing charge, ex vat

                  So, based on their standard variable tariff for gas & electricity a heat pump would cost £150 more to run annually ex vat
                   
                  • Informative Informative x 1
                  Loading...

                  Share This Page

                  1. This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
                    By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.
                    Dismiss Notice