Electric cars.

Discussion in 'Off-Topic Discussion' started by pete, Apr 7, 2021.

  1. Fat Controller

    Fat Controller 'Cuddly' Scottish Admin! Staff Member

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    Depends on the car. Given the cost of replacement batteries, whether they can be removed or not seems to be something of a moot point... at anything more than a couple of years old, the cost of replacement batteries is running so high that they outvalue the vehicle.
     
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    • Fat Controller

      Fat Controller 'Cuddly' Scottish Admin! Staff Member

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    • gks

      gks Total Gardener

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      This was based on the Nissan Leaf 1st generation, where the range on a 24kWh battery was 73-84 miles and 84-107 miles on the 30kWh battery. The cost was based on a refurb replacement, not a new battery with Nissan quoting the replacement battery would have an 86% charge, which would reduce the range to probably 60 miles on a 24kWh battery

      As that article was in 2018, then you would assume they have come down in cost even more, or not. According to this link seems like they now cost 100% more for a replacement battery.

      Nissan Leaf Battery Replacement and Upgrades: Full Guide - Green Car Future
       
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      • pete

        pete Growing a bit of this and a bit of that....

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        I;m sure China will be making replacement batteries at half the price soon and selling them on Ebay.:biggrin:
         
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        • Fat Controller

          Fat Controller 'Cuddly' Scottish Admin! Staff Member

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          Please explain how it is a ridiculous idea, given that the article relates to one manufacturer only? Nissan Leaf are not exactly representative of the BEV market, or at least they certainly aren't around where I live.

          What is the replacement cost for a Hyundai Ioniq 5, or Kia EV6 for example? Something is putting insurers off BEV's, so if it isn't the cost of the batteries, what is it?
           
        • Fat Controller

          Fat Controller 'Cuddly' Scottish Admin! Staff Member

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          Most of the batteries currently are supplied by China - one of the main reasons we are not building our own bus chassis over here.
           
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          • pete

            pete Growing a bit of this and a bit of that....

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            Sorry but this is how I see EVs,:biggrin: I bought Chinese replacement batteries for my Makita tools over the years, the replacement ones are never as good as the originals even though the proport to be the same thing, they dont hold their charge over a long period and you spend all your time charging them up, but they are CHEAPER.:thumbsup:
             
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            • pete

              pete Growing a bit of this and a bit of that....

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              But the car market is full of cheap Chinese parts, so I'm told, its not something I get involved in, but how long will it be before these car replacement batteries are just Chinse rip offs like all the other stuff they flood the market with.

              Sure its about spec but when it comes to replacing your Makita with a cheaper alternative what will happen, I forsee people running their original batteries into the ground, fitting a cheaper alternative and putting the car on the market, buyer beware as they say.

              Of course none of this is really happening now because EVs are just a curiosity.:roflol:
               
            • Fat Controller

              Fat Controller 'Cuddly' Scottish Admin! Staff Member

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              Watch the video I posted the other night - the claims are contained within there
               
            • Fat Controller

              Fat Controller 'Cuddly' Scottish Admin! Staff Member

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              In fairness @Drahcir is spot on - the Chinese are perfectly capable of building good quality stuff, as long as they are held to a specification and there is some auditing being done; allow free rein where price is the only driver and then the story changes and that applies whether it is car parts or power tools. Capability isn't the issue, the temptation to stray away from quality (and in some cases, safety standards) to be the cheapest, is.
               
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              • gks

                gks Total Gardener

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                But is it just the rising surface temperature that is the main cause of thawing, what about below.
                Scientists have been reporting that zombie fires in peat bogs, below the ice and snow could be accelerating permafrost thawing.

                I know in the past media outlets have reported snow melting in the Artic far sooner than previous years, but it was hardly reported that beneath the snow and ice peat and soil was still smouldering away during the winter months even though it was thought these fires had been extinguished.
                Even in Siberia where temperatures can be minus 40, zombie peat fires are smouldering away and spreading below the ice and snow.

                Zombie wildfires are blazing through the Arctic, causing record burning | Live Science
                 
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                • Fat Controller

                  Fat Controller 'Cuddly' Scottish Admin! Staff Member

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                  With the greatest of respect, we are discussing the cost of replacing vehicle batteries, so not quite at the level of a drugs trial.

                  Try this - How much does an electric car battery cost?| EVBox which quotes £11,800 to replace a Tesla Model S battery; or this - Tesla Battery Replacement Cost Explained which gives a figure of $13000 for a Model 3, as well as figures for other models.

                  Or this - How much does it cost to change an EV battery? which quotes just over £9000 to replace a Kia EV6 battery (and that appears to be without labour)

                  So, when you consider that for a Kia EV6, that would mean that if the value is less than approximately £20k, an insurer would write it off - and that £20k is not forecourt price either, that is Glass' book price
                   
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                  • gks

                    gks Total Gardener

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                    And there lies the problem, the failure to understand zombie fires and how they are also contributing to the artic warming faster.
                    Researchers and scientist have been doing trials on a number of products to help combat zombie fires as water alone does not penetrate to the hot spots that can be 6 inches below the surface.
                    So why has it taken till 2021 for researches to develop a product, which is describe as a magical suppressant that allows water to spread evenly and deeper into these zombie fires so they are distinguished instead of smouldering and spreading under the permafrost.

                    The artic wildfires put nearly 40% more CO2 into the atmosphere in 2020 compared to 2019, the equivalent CO2 that Vietnam emitted in the whole of 2020. The fact these zombie fires were stilling smouldering below the surface during the winter months resulted in the snow and ice thawing sooner resulting in the wildfire season lasting longer.

                    So what is this magical suppressant, a wetting agent, a similar product that the horticultural sector has been using for years. I have been incorporating it into peat based compost for growers for over 25 years, so why has it taken so long for them to understand the characteristics of peat bogs and zombie fires to come up with a similar product. The zombie fires of 2019 were still burning and smouldering below the surface during the winter months, had they been extinguished, I doubt the Artic would have witnessed the ferocity of wildfires they did in 2020.

                    ‘Magical’ fire suppressant kills zombie fires 40% faster than water alone | Imperial News | Imperial College London
                     
                  • gks

                    gks Total Gardener

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                    Which other manufacturing companies are offering similar recondition batteries?
                    Both article's do not mention manufacturer's offering reconditioned batteries, it's the odd salvage company that has been offering them. In the link you provided, in the comments the company that had been offering reconditioned batteries was, Cleeveley electric cars, who specialise in repairs of EV's and according to one comment they do not offer reconditioned batteries anymore.

                    Battery Upgrades - Cleevely Electric Vehicles Gloucestershire (cleevelyev.co.uk)
                     
                  • Fat Controller

                    Fat Controller 'Cuddly' Scottish Admin! Staff Member

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                    Which science is that - the one that failed to understand the wildfires or the one that eventually worked out they were a problem and developed the suppressant/wetting agent?

                    See, this is what really frustrates me with the current situation on just about everything.. you are either 100% a believer or 100% a dis-believer and if you dare to be in the middle ground, you are automatically cast out as a 100% dis-believer. Worse still, when a situation is later proven not to be what it was stated to be, those 100% believers at best go silent..
                     
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