Electric cars.

Discussion in 'Off-Topic Discussion' started by pete, Apr 7, 2021.

  1. shiney

    shiney President, Grumpy Old Men's Club Staff Member

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    Possibly extracted from the report from Australia.

    "Australia, which mined about half the world’s lithium in 2022, forecasts the spot price of spodumene will fall to $2,200 per tonne in 2025 from an estimated average of $3,840 per tonne last year, according to a quarterly report by the country’s Department of Industry, Science and Resources issued last month."

    The extract above may not be the true future picture but is currently correct about market prices. Extraction has slowed but is expected to pick up again in a few years time. Demand has recently been lower. If they use typical market forces techniques then lower production should correct the drop in price somewhat.
     
  2. Loofah

    Loofah Admin Staff Member

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    China will continue to mine regardless as they're ensuring they maintain market share / dominance
     
  3. Loofah

    Loofah Admin Staff Member

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  4. gks

    gks Total Gardener

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    It will be a combination of a couple of factors, a slow down in EV sales, supply outweighs demand. Plus competition from other companies that have started mining for lithium and nickel. Looking at the report below, you could say batteries might get cheaper in the future, but not by much.

    Mine closures loom as Australian lithium producers warn of more price pain | S&P Global Market Intelligence (spglobal.com)
     
  5. Loofah

    Loofah Admin Staff Member

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    I thought this amusing...
    FB_IMG_1707899174642.jpg
     
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    • JWK

      JWK Gardener Staff Member

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      If we all drove EVs and someone had the idea of an internal combustion powered car I would think they were mad. Driving something with several gallons of highly flammable liquid slopping around a tank that could easily be punctured in a crash. The idea that an engine could be powered by hundreds of mini explosions every minute that pushed pistons, connected to a crankshaft, then a very complex set of gears because it only has torque in a certain range seems unworkable. None of it would seem feasible. Then add on all the unreliable electronics to open and close mechanical valves to cut down power so you can drive through cities without getting fined!

      We have only got to the position where conventional cars work through decades of development. It wasn't long ago they shook themselves apart or rusted away in short time. Plus they were unaffordable to my grandparents generation, only the rich had them.
       
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      • Loofah

        Loofah Admin Staff Member

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        I genuinely think the best option we have for the next decade (at least) is for improvement in emission levels from ICE vehicles. I don't see EV as viable in any way. Government is attempting running before walking
         
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        • JWK

          JWK Gardener Staff Member

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          Also thinking about refuelling how crazy to have to drive to a purpose built station to waste 10 minutes pumping flammable liquid from one tank to another. That's if the station doesn't have long queues or runs out.


          Much easier to plug in when home with no waiting about.
           
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            Last edited: Feb 14, 2024
          • pete

            pete Growing a bit of this and a bit of that....

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            Good point the ICE has had decades of development.
            Maybe when EVs have had the same amount of time to develop they could also be half decent.:biggrin:

            I've been doing a bit of EV spotting recently and half the time I cant work out who is making what, but I think they seem to be trying to spruce them up a bit and improve the appearance of them. Of the ones I'm seeing Tesla are probably the blandest looking of the lot.
             
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            • Loofah

              Loofah Admin Staff Member

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              Well they've gone from the first fully leaded gas guzzling machine to much more recent ULEZ -compliant engines so along those pathways I would think :doh:
              Not a magic wand, small incremental improvements.
               
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              • Jiffy

                Jiffy The Match is on Fire

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                You could put some pedals,chain and a few sprockets to the rear wheels, more MPG and keep you fit + if it's raining you would be nice a dry
                 
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                • pete

                  pete Growing a bit of this and a bit of that....

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                  Sounds like a hybrid to me.
                  Anyway we will all be getting around like the Flintstones soon if the governments get their way.
                   
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                  • gks

                    gks Total Gardener

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                    Most new European ICE cars will probably have the new euro 7 engine.

                    A French study shows that running a PHEV that runs on e85 is as beneficial to the climate as a BEV. Using the battery for 40% of the mileage with E85 being used for the other 60%, then taking everything into account from manufacture to recycling, the PHEV is equal as a 100% electric car on the environment.The current price of ethanol in France is EUR 0.92 per litre according to global petrol prices.

                    https://www.biofuelsdigest.com/bdig...as-beneficial-to-the-climate-as-100-electric/

                    Germany abruptly ended subsidies for electric cars on the 16th December, when they were supposed to end in December 2024. As a result, new registrations for BEV's in January were down by 50% compared to December. I know they had a budget crisis, but with reports that PHEV can be as beneficial for the climate as 100% electric could also be a reason for ending subsidies on BEV's.
                     
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                    • JWK

                      JWK Gardener Staff Member

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                      I think we have gone too far already. ICE vehicles have become so complicated that they reach end of life after 80k, repair costs are ridiculous when anything goes wrong with all the engine management computers and sensors and garages seem incapable of diagnosing what is at fault.
                       
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                      • CanadianLori

                        CanadianLori Total Gardener

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