Electric cars.

Discussion in 'Off-Topic Discussion' started by pete, Apr 7, 2021.

  1. gks

    gks Total Gardener

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    Are you 100% sure? Brussels, under pressure from Germany and Italy said that combustion engine cars will still be lawful for sale after 2035 if they use e-fuels. Northern Ireland and Scotland are more likely to follow EU directives than central government, so combustion engine cars that run on e-fuels could still be available in Northern Ireland and Scotland, which would then mean it would be lawful to sell ICE vehicles running on e-fuels to those who reside in England.
     
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    • Loofah

      Loofah Admin Staff Member

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      And when has any government anywhere met a target? :roflol:
       
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      • Fat Controller

        Fat Controller 'Cuddly' Scottish Admin! Staff Member

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        Especially if the electorate/consumers vote with their wallet.

        Take a look at EV prices, they are absolutely tanking.
         
      • gks

        gks Total Gardener

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        Study shows the UK are offshoring emissions through exported used vehicles.

        Study shows UK offshores emissions through used vehicle exports | University of Oxford

        In another report, every month ships loaded with second-hand, low-quality, polluting vehicles leave ports in Europe, Japan and the United States bound for sale in poorer nations. The European Union, ranked as the largest exporter, sent approximately 7.5 million vehicles abroad. Over half of all vehicles exported to low and middle income countries originate from the UK and EU. Exported diesel vehicles (98%) failed the EU's Euro 6 diesel emissions standards for the air pollutants nitrogen oxide and carbon monoxide.
         
      • Fat Controller

        Fat Controller 'Cuddly' Scottish Admin! Staff Member

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      • Loofah

        Loofah Admin Staff Member

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        All still a lovely idea but running before walking
         
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        • Freddy

          Freddy Miserable git, well known for it

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          They probably said much the same, back in the late 1800’s.
           
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          • pete

            pete Growing a bit of this and a bit of that....

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            Yeah but nobody said you won't be able to buy another horse and you will have to buy a very expensive horseless carriage instead.:biggrin:
             
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            • hailbopp

              hailbopp Gardener

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              Perhaps slightly off subject. Supposedly we are all being pushed into buying electric cars that need batteries. I believe it is Lithium which is required in the manufacture of these batteries.This is not an area of expertise so stand corrected if I am wrong.
              I am good friends with the wife of a very very experienced ships captain who has been involved with undersea gas pipelines etc for many years. He was involved in repairing the gas pipeline which mysteriously blew up in places when war was declared by Russia in Ukraine.
              Recently he was head hunted to be involved with blowing up the sea bed in The North Sea to mine Lithium for these planet saving vehicles. He is a geologist as well as a sailor. He was offered a massive salary but turned it down flat as he is completely horrified at what I believe is already happening in other parts of the world as he is not confident enough research has been done on the effects of mining the sea bed. His attitude is there are a load of “ cowboys” out to make a quick buck and to hell with the consequences. I would believe his opinion over companies out to make loadsa money. Just like we were told wind turbines make no noise by a German company wanting permission to put up a load of turbines not far from where I live. How come then when the wind blows in a certain direction I can hear a wind turbine which is at least 5 miles from where I live?
               
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              • Loofah

                Loofah Admin Staff Member

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                It's one of my major gripes about these vehicles. The issues over mining both in terms of geological impact and slave labour are known about but ignored in the race to acquire as much if the rare earth metal as possible. The rich get richer and the whole thing stinks.
                 
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                • Clueless 1 v2

                  Clueless 1 v2 Total Gardener

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                  I feel like politics plays a massive role here.

                  So the scientists say we have to stop putting co2 into the atmosphere. Great, let's go all electric, but change absolutely nothing else. We'll still build infrastructure that promotes car dependency. We'll just change how the cars are powered. We'll do this before the engineers have found a sustainable way to achieve this.

                  It was the same when petrol became 10% biofuel. Great. That 10% is carbon neutral. Nope. The biomass that ended up in fuel still needed all the carbon impact of farming to grow it, then it's transportation, processing etc. All while taking land away from food production.

                  Electric cars have promise, but I see the current batch as proof of concept rather than commercially ready product. In a few years the scientists and engineers will have better, more sustainable batteries. But not yet.

                  The way I see it, we've had a good solution for years, but it's not politically fashionable. That is the hybrid. A petrol engine running at its most efficient RPM, generating electricity for electric motors. True it's no better than pure petrol for accelerating, but has the advantage of regenerative braking. Basically taking a petrol engine, but salvaging the energy that is currently just discarded in deceleration and braking.
                   
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                  • shiney

                    shiney President, Grumpy Old Men's Club Staff Member

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                    I don't remember them saying that to me! :scratch: :old:
                     
                  • Fat Controller

                    Fat Controller 'Cuddly' Scottish Admin! Staff Member

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                    I still think that Toyota's top guy is right here, in as much that he expects EV to settle around 30% of market share, with other fuels making up the rest. I think hydrogen is almost certainly a non-starter, not least because of the losses involved, yet I am still very much intrigued by the idea of ammonia based fuels.
                     
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                    • Loofah

                      Loofah Admin Staff Member

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                      I got asked many years ago by Lotus to work for them in power electronics and start on hydrogen fuel cells. I said I know f'all about fuel cells and they that's fine, no-one else does either :heehee:
                       
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                      • gks

                        gks Total Gardener

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                        You only have to look at the current F1 cars, the battery is capable of giving the engines about a 120kW boost. In 2013 a formula 1 car was using on average about 160kg of fuel per Grand Prix. With improvements in engine, aerodynamics and these energy storing packs they aim to be using an average of 70kg of fuel per race by 2026.

                        I personally believe they are using the climate crisis to introduce taxes. While I was in Thailand last September my Swedish friend showed me a graph regarding the carbon footprint of Sweden, while getting to having one of the lowest carbon footprints per capita in Europe, they now have one of the largest carbon footprints on imports. So while reducing their carbon footprint internally this was offset in a progressive increase in the volume of imports, hence why they are introducing a carbon border tax. Even the UK is going down this route and the plan is it will be introduced in 2027, Cars, lithium batteries, cement, fertiliser, basically anything that is fossil fuel hungry to produce will have taxes imposed or in a polite way to the public, it will be worded as an increase in tariffs.
                         
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