Latest Moan From You and Me 2024

Discussion in 'Off-Topic Discussion' started by JWK, Jan 1, 2024.

  1. Fat Controller

    Fat Controller 'Cuddly' Scottish Admin! Staff Member

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    I didn't say it was full of incompetent doctors - I did say there are many within the NHS and they are part of the reason that it is so busy. It is an absolute lottery as to whether you get a good one or not, and I could reel off a number of cases of pure negligence (only one of which relates to me) - now whilst I can accept that folks will only ever talk about the bad bits and rarely the good, for me to personally know of at least four others within my fairly limited circle of friends & family who have all had fairly significant negligence tells me that there is a problem.
     
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    • fairygirl

      fairygirl Total Gardener

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      That doesn't necessarily mean that they can't be incompetent, or 'less than desirable', or lazy, or anytihng else, once they actually get into their jobs @Busy-Lizzie - same as in any profession.
      Top heavy in many areas, and in other areas, they're struggling to get people at all, of any kind. Much as I hate the term - postcode lottery, I think it does fit the NHS.
      Throwing money isn't the answer - it's giving targeted money that matters, but I doubt that will ever happen now.

      I've seen good and bad, and I rarely have to use the medical profession.
       
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      • Punkdoc

        Punkdoc Super Gardener

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        I totally disagree that there are many incompetent doctors in the NHS, some yes, many no, and I would also add, are you able to judge incompetence? A bad outcome does not necessarily mean incompetence.
        I was fortunate to work in the USA, Holland and the UK during my career [ as well as a fair few war zones ] and overall, without a shadow of a doubt, the NHS provides the best care. The worst, USA, no doubt, if you are poor, you get no care, if you are rich you are over charged and over treated.
         
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        • Fat Controller

          Fat Controller 'Cuddly' Scottish Admin! Staff Member

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          You are fully entitled to disagree.

          To answer your question, am I able to judge incompetence... I would say I am, having been faced with a the very dismissive attitude of more than one consultant. The first being a renal consultant that told me my kidneys would never function again, that they were putting me on the transplant list and I was on dialysis for life and would not listen to me pleading for them to stop "drying me out like a prune" every second day and allow my kidneys the chance to start working. Transfer to another hospital, spoke to a second consultant who actually listened - - lo and behold, I can now pee like a racehorse. Or the OT that said I would "never sit on a normal chair or sofa" and actually wanted to take my sofa away before I was released from hospital - - I am sat on a sofa right now.

          Or we could go for the doctor that told my mother's neighbour that she needed antibiotics for stomach pain - - after nine months of going to the doctor and being in agony, she was taken into Edinburgh Royal where she was diagnosed with cancer (terminal, by that stage)

          Or how about one of my staff taking his son to hospital with abdominal pain - sent home twice with pain relief because it was "growing pains" - once they actually decided to investigate, it was an issue with one of his testicles, that he subsequently lost (13 years old)

          Or maybe my cousin's recent experience in Glasgow - he has been a renal patient all of his life, has dialysis three times a week and he has learning difficulties (approx mental age of 6). His fistula was failing, so he was sent from Dumfries to Glasgow as they were the specialist hospital. Glasgow unblocked the fistula, but had him waiting three days before they did so - meantime, there was zero control over his diet or fluid intake - by the time he got back to Dumfries, he was almost 9-litres overloaded! You are a doctor, so you know what that does to a renal patient's heart. Worse still, he had to go back to Glasgow for a second attempt at unblocking the fistula and shortly after his return he then ended up back in Dumfries as an inpatient as a direct result of their lack of control over his diet (his potassium levels were off the scale)

          So yes, I am able to judge what is incompetent.
           
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          • pete

            pete Growing a bit of this and a bit of that....

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            I used to have a fairly poor GP, was stuck with him for years, very lacklustre and even a hospital doctor actually made a comment about him on one occasion, I think he was pretty well known in the local area, finally he decided to retire at the beginning of covid.
            My GP now is pretty good in comparison, it's just getting to see him that is the problem.
            I've had occasion to see a few hospital doctors recently and apart from one my experience has been pretty good up till now, but it was a case of use a private hospital and get the NHS to pay.
            It's the NHS that is my beef not so much the people who work there, but there are good and not so good in all jobs.
             
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            • Fat Controller

              Fat Controller 'Cuddly' Scottish Admin! Staff Member

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              Indeed - my GP is superb, although getting to see her can be a challenge; and for balance, I have encountered a lot of excellent doctors and consultants. What frustrates me is that when there is incompetence, it is shrugged off or swept under the carpet.
               
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              • Bluejayway

                Bluejayway Plantaholic

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                I think a lot of the problem with the NHS these days is that many "illnesses" and "conditions", both mental and physical, which were once considered to be simply part of life, are now able to be "treated" and, of course, people have their yooman rights to consider ....:wallbanging:
                 
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                • Punkdoc

                  Punkdoc Super Gardener

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                  Some of the issues you describe were examples of poor care, maybe incompetence, maybe examples of the total overload of the system, preventing doctors being able to give the care they are perfectly able to provide.
                  Most days I found myself in situations where I could not provide proper care, because I had too many patients requiring my attention, that is systems failure, not incompetence.
                  This is the reason I retired early, and many of colleagues much younger than me want to get out.
                   
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                  • Clueless 1 v2

                    Clueless 1 v2 Total Gardener

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                    We used to have a GP where I lived for a while that was known locally as Dr Paracetamol.

                    It doesn't take a genius to guess why, but for the avoidance of doubt, that was his standard advice for any ailment. Just take some paracetamol.
                     
                  • Punkdoc

                    Punkdoc Super Gardener

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                    I would argue, that for most people attending their GP's surgery, just take Paracetamol is probably the correct answer.
                     
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                    • Clueless 1 v2

                      Clueless 1 v2 Total Gardener

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                      Dr Dunn? Is that you?
                       
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                      • Loxley

                        Loxley Gardener

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                        This attitude of 'just throwing money at the problem won't help' makes me a bit cross. If we were spending a similar level of money to other countries and still not getting good results then that would be one thing. But we are not; we are clearly underfunding the system.

                        upload_2024-4-4_10-35-7.png

                        Obviously new money would have to be targeted correctly, for sure. For example, moving away from private outsourcing, and training large numbers of new staff (and paying them competitively so they don't just go abroard or into the private sector).

                        But this attitude that mucking around with the bureaucratic structures of the NHS will magically result in a gold plated NHS that costs peanuts is a bit silly. Every time it is done, it seems to end up making the situation worse not better.
                         
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                        • Fat Controller

                          Fat Controller 'Cuddly' Scottish Admin! Staff Member

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                          I certainly don't disagree that the system is totally overloaded - but again, how much of that is appointments being made to see someone to get an appointment to see someone else to then get an appointment to see the person you should have seen first time around? Of course, like schools, water, drainage, power generation etc, successive governments have dropped the ball and failed to anticipate increases in population, further deepening the stress on services. It is easy to blame the Tories (and why not as they are a shower of shh.. manure?), but in reality the rot goes back decades - at least to the 90's if not before, and now everything is the consumer/customer's fault.
                           
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                          • pete

                            pete Growing a bit of this and a bit of that....

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                            I find it annoying having to make an appointment just to get a different dosage of some tablets that I take all the time, I don't expect to be able to up dosage of most but I do think I should be able to reduce if I want to.
                            Not referring to life saving drugs just the normal stuff they seem to think you "might" need without actually testing if you do, statins being the "get everyone on it" drug ATM.
                             
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                            • Fat Controller

                              Fat Controller 'Cuddly' Scottish Admin! Staff Member

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                              There are two prongs - does it need investment? Yes, of course it does. Equally, however, it needs to look inwardly with a critical eye and see what it can do better.

                              Put battle-scarred private business managers like myself and a good few others here in and give us a free hand... same with councils. The P45's would be going like confetti in some places.
                               
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