Latest Moan From You and Me 2024

Discussion in 'Off-Topic Discussion' started by JWK, Jan 1, 2024.

  1. ViewAhead

    ViewAhead Head Gardener

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    Hmm, well, it's worked out just fine and dandy for the arms manufacturers, etc. It doesn't work out well for the regular folk in the country on the receiving end of the meddling, of course, but then it is not intended to. It also doesn't work out well for the tax payers of the meddling country, but who cares about them and their hopes and dreams, educational chances, or health outcomes! No cause, no person, no group is more important than profit.
     
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    • pete

      pete Growing a bit of this and a bit of that....

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      I dont quite agree, I think we just have this idea that our way of life is best for all countries and then we get involved in trying to change regimes and make them kinder to certain sections of their population.

      We have different standards and ideas that we live by, but seem hell bent on imposing those standards on other countries.

      I'm not convinced its all about selling arms, it more about a holier than thou attitude.
       
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      • Obelix-Vendée

        Obelix-Vendée Keen Gardener

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        I think it's all about selling arms and then other western goods and technology once "peace" is restored because it's all about profits but sold to us as jobs and long term security for our people. Lots of technological and health advances come in war time, for obvious reasons.
         
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        • pete

          pete Growing a bit of this and a bit of that....

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          I dont think we are a massive arms manufacturer these days, we cant even supply our own forces half the time let alone supply other countries.
          I think we are pretty much a spent force in that area but still try to punch above our weight.

          Going back as far as the Falklands conflict I seem to remember we ran out of missiles and was begging other counties to help us out.
           
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          • Punkdoc

            Punkdoc Super Gardener

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            We don't make much of anything in this country anymore. We are apparently a knowledge economy, whatever that means.
             
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            • pete

              pete Growing a bit of this and a bit of that....

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              It probably means nobody wants to get their hands dirty anymore.
               
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              • Obelix-Vendée

                Obelix-Vendée Keen Gardener

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                The UK does make jet engines and fighter jets, missiles and munitions, machine guns and all sorts of fancy tracking systems.

                The UK is, generally, the second largest exporter of arms in the world but also has the most controls on exports with each case being judged individually. Customers include the USA, Israel, France, Germany, South Korea, Turkey, Saudi Arabia, Oman, UAE...........
                 
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                • Dovefromabove

                  Dovefromabove Head Gardener

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                  We may not manufacture all the arms we use, but we sell a lot of second hand stuff abroad .., there’s a helluva lot of (secondhand) arms dealers in the UK. I once knew someone who worked for some of them and back then they all had links to (Tory) cabinet ministers and various Ambassadors.
                   
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                    Last edited: Jun 19, 2024
                  • ViewAhead

                    ViewAhead Head Gardener

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                    I think there is significant effort put into persuading populations that is the reason, but the real motivation is always profit. That's why causes get dumped so unceremoniously when it suits.
                     
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                    • noisette47

                      noisette47 Total Gardener

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                      Just like the good ol' US of A then :roflol: It's not about ( a few) making obscene amounts of money, oh no, no, no :nonofinger:. You're mellowing, pete :biggrin: Where's the cynicism?
                       
                    • pete

                      pete Growing a bit of this and a bit of that....

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                      I cant imagine putting troops into Afghanistan ever made us any money, it costs us money.
                      I'm still cynical, but I think we go into these places because we are either trying to keep the likes of Russia or China out.
                      I understand half of Africa is now looking towards China, its worrying.

                      The western countries influence in the world is waning.
                       
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                      • gks

                        gks Total Gardener

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                        Then fast forward to 2024 when these countries have experienced a huge population growth, then the images of flooding, famine etc etc are more graphic as it effects far more people.
                        You only have to look at the Sahel region, the region is experiencing exceptional and unprecedented natural demographic growth, leading to a widening gap between population size and available resources. With the explosion in population growth comes humanitarian challenges. The governments of these countries have to act and act fast, otherwise you end up with famines, wars, crime and epidemics which results in migration. The infrastructure needs to grow and at the same pace, or you end up with conflict due to there not being enough resources.

                        To put things into context, the population of Pakistan in 1965 was less than the UK. If the UK's population growth rate was the same, we would now have a population of nearly 250 million, would we be better or worse off for it. The UK has struggled with a population increase of 23% since 1965, let alone one that has increased by nearly 380%.
                         
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                        • pete

                          pete Growing a bit of this and a bit of that....

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                          The population of nearly all countries in the world is now greater than the land can naturally support, its only technology improvements that allows populations to survive, in my view.

                          We just keep taking more and more land around the world and all they seem to worry about is climate change, no one seems to see the bigger picture.

                          Solve climate change if you like, but what is going on is not sustainable.
                           
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                          • Punkdoc

                            Punkdoc Super Gardener

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                            China is only doing what we did previously, building an empire. I have seen first hand their influence in Africa, having been a frequent visitor over the last 20 years. Joburg. airport which now takes several hours to pass through, has separate fast moving queues for Chinese nationals, which move considerably quicker than those for westerners.
                             
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                            • pete

                              pete Growing a bit of this and a bit of that....

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                              And we are condemned for doing so.:smile:
                               
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