Separate Moan Thread About The Election

“Just as we cannot judge every migrant that comes to the UK on the basis of the likes of the Manchester bomber, we equally cannot judge everyone in a political party on the basis of someone who may gravitate toward voting for/supporting that party.”

That’s not what i said …. I don’t believe that everyone who votes for Reform is a vile racist … I know some Reform voters very well and I know that although I disagree with them about a lot of things they are basically decent human beings.

What I’m asking is, what is it about Reform that draws ex BNP members to the party? … The supporter identified today is not the first. It’s not that every party attracts them … as far as I’m aware it’s not a problem the Lib Dems have.
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Re Trump/Biden. I couldn’t bring myself to listen to it, but I have a question.

If you had a local election and the choice was between an elderly chap who said the sort of things that you agree with (let’s say chemical free gardening is the way to go) but who looked a bit doddery and not long for this world, and a loud, aggressive, convicted felon who said that he would bring in compulsory pesticide and herbicide use in every public place the day he got elected, would you change your vote from the bloke you agree with to the bloke you don’t agree with just because the bloke you don’t agree with would seem to have the potential to be longer in the job?

In other words, why would a Democrat vote for Trump just because Biden is too decrepit? Surely, if Biden popped his clogs or got carried off to the funny farm he would have a deputy who could step in and continue his philosophy?

 

I walked away from this thread about 200 posts ago...but to see actually justifying fascist rhetoric as responding to people's concerns is absolutely astounding to me. Reform is standing on a xenophobic cause no matter how you want to dress it up. And anyone moderate being appalled by them is branded soft and naive. We should look at recent history and see what happened elsewhere to have a good idea what's coming next if they get into parliament, after all they are bragging to be working to be the leading party by 2029.

I'm Greek and we amazingly elected neo Nazis in parliament nearly a decade ago, it took a violent death to get the "party" declared a terrorist organisation and land most of the leadership in prison. The years in between they kept on poisoning public debate and getting more outrageous as time went by. Reform may sounds reasonable to some right now, but in time their outrageous ideas they haven't aired like "the great replacement theory" that is the mainstay of similar parties across Europe, will be aired and if they have some actual power they will be even more difficult to counter as they keep dripping poison in UK political discourse.

The effect is cumulative and the more they are treated like a reasonable party the more it will appeal to a wider audience that wants simple solutions to complex problems. Lots of good people in Greece voted for Golden Dawn despite its decades long fascist reputation as they saw it as a way to air their concerns about the EU and how our politicians dealt with its bodies. All the got out of it was a bunch of violent haters being platformed and given legitimacy to normalise hate. Reform like UKIP before it, may seem all a bit parochial but undeniably has the possibility to be something much darker. Especially in a world were manipulation of the electorate via digital avenues isn't well regulated despite the awful lot of corruption and illegality that gave us Brexshit.

So think a bit harder why you really support Reform and whether it comes from a place of disenfranchisement and hate for otherness. Live and let live is a great motto to live by until the other side want you gone. As a foreign gay man, I feel deeply uncomfortable when far right parties gain popularity as I am potentially one of their main targets. So yes, I have some "legitimate concerns" too.

 

The way to counter far left or right views poisoning society is to have a strong centrist party that puts the interests of 95% of the population first, rather than allowing control by the wealthy. It doesn't happen because the parties towards the edges of the continuum are propped up handsomely by money from the 5%, who also control the media coverage. Dividing society and making it poorer both serve the aims of wealth extremely well. Any distraction away from their grab of a huge proportion of available resources is excellent news ... and if people get harmed or law and order breaks down, they could not care less as they can ride it out unaffected.

Until the media starts reporting the abuses being perpetrated by the wealthy, nothing will improve in political discourse.

 

I understand your concerns, but the course of human history shows that hatred and fear of “the other” is never far under the surface, be it the Spanish Inquisition, Rwanda’s genocide, or Stalin’s purges. We go in waves, and there’s a wave coming up, sadly. Made all the more potent by everybody being able to hear the weirdos, minute by minute, on their phones.

 

I must agree @amancalledgeorge that "live and let live" is the best way to conduct your life. My Granddad (who died before I was born) was a WW1 veteran and I was always told that he insisted that respect for another person's POV was the only way to exist peaceably together

 

The news interest in some (many) of the candidates for Reform should be great news for the Conservative. I don't believe that the vast majority of voters of the party agree with the sentiments stated by Reform. Hopefully that will convince many disaffected Tories to stick with the Tories rather than register a hopeless protest vote. I'll be amazed if Labour don't form the next Government, but voting Reform will simply give them a much larger majority, possibly verging on a one party state.

 

@Bluejayway ”live & let live” only works if the person with the other point of view doesn’t want to curtail your rights. Political disagreement is healthy, scapegoating the vulnerable or different, racism & fascism are not. IMO all should be alert for those things in any political party or politician.

 

I agree @Panda2 but the phrase speaks for itself really

 

Just seen this on Nextdoor