Question about no dig gardening

Discussion in 'General Gardening Discussion' started by MCardiff, Sep 10, 2024.

  1. MCardiff

    MCardiff Apprentice Gardener

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    We have a bare patch in our garden, where (due to a building project earlier this year) the soil has become pretty compacted. I considered getting out my spade and methodically digging it over, but (a) there's a big willow tree in that area so working around its roots could be difficult, and (b) I have a bad back.

    I've been reading about the no dig method, but most of what I read is about beds that are already planted. Because this is bare, I was wondering if it's OK to lay down my mulch right now and leave it untouched till spring, so I can then start planting out? I don't have my own compost, so was wondering whether to use normal commercial compost, manure or a mix?
    Any other tips/thoughts? Thank you.
     
  2. hailbopp

    hailbopp Gardener

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    It really depends on what you are intending to plant in the area? If the ground is very compacted then roots of shrubs are going to have a job to get through it and also drainage could be a problem. If you are going to be planting veg then your idea of just putting down some compost/ manure might work. Also if there is a big Willow tree that is going to suck up most of the nutrients and moisture and cause other plants trouble in establishing. Maybe a photo of the area would help people to give you sound advice.
     
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      Last edited: Sep 10, 2024
    • pete

      pete Growing a bit of this and a bit of that....

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      My first thoughts were, willow tree?

      It will root upwards straight into any compost you put on top IMO.
       
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      • Thevictorian

        Thevictorian Gardener

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        What are you planning on growing there? If it's perennial plants then the advice would be slightly different to annual. If it's a big willow tree then it may help stop the soil getting really compacted but it will majorly influence what cab be done with the space.
         
      • MCardiff

        MCardiff Apprentice Gardener

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        Posting two photos, one of the ground area (sorry, didn't have time to move the bags etc.) and another with the tree in context. It's a northwest facing fence and shaded by the willow when it's in full leaf, so probably looking for shade tolerant, tough perennials and ideally one or two evergreens - a mixture of shrubs and ground cover perhaps. No completely fixed ideas.

        20240910_155843.jpg 20240910_155921.jpg
         
      • pete

        pete Growing a bit of this and a bit of that....

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        Do you have a chainsaw?:biggrin:

        I'd really get shot of that tree.:smile:
         
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        • MCardiff

          MCardiff Apprentice Gardener

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          We like it! It was pollarded in January from its original height of 15-20 metres. When it's in full leaf it's rather lovely, although I admit it doesn't look it at the moment...
           
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          • hailbopp

            hailbopp Gardener

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            Afraid I would have to agree with Pete but everybody, quite rightly has their own ideas as to what they want their garden to be.
            Honestly, anything is going to seriously struggle under a tree of that size. You could try planting some dry shade( there is not an enormous choice!) loving plants to the left of the blue sack, any closer to the tree and your best bet would be bulbs such as Snowdrops, aconites and daffodils should cope. Plants that would have a chance a little away from the tree would be ferns, Ivy leafed Cyclamen, Brunnera either the green leafed or variegated ( Jack Frost) or you could try some of the hardy geraniums.
             
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            • Stephen Southwest

              Stephen Southwest Gardener

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              You're right - no benefit in digging, and a layer of mulch will make it easier to plant up.
              In terms of what to use, I'd suggest free old manure, if you can get hold of some, or a dumpy bag of municipal compost or whatever else is easy for you to get hold of.
              Here's Charles Dowding's beginners video.
              ...and keep you expectations low - you won't get a great deal growing under a willow - they're generally pretty thirsty...
               
            • MCardiff

              MCardiff Apprentice Gardener

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              Thanks everyone... So it's mulch, no digging, low expectations and reconsider the willow after a year's experimenting! Got it.
               
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              • Thevictorian

                Thevictorian Gardener

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                Willows have deep and expansive root systems and suck up all the moisture in the local area, so it will be hard to plant anything but tough plants. I'd add geranium macrorrhizum, epimediums, japanese anemones, euphorbia amygdaloides robbiae and liriope to those already mentioned but I would try and create a deep mulch to give them a chance of establishing before the willow roots invade. You could also build some planters over the top as another option.
                 
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                • fairygirl

                  fairygirl Total Gardener

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                  Are you sure that's a willow?
                  I'm going to slightly disagree here with what's been said. First thing I'd do though, is to create a firm entrance for your shed. If you put a board , or edging of some kind, at the front where the entrance is, to separate it from the bed, and even just gravel it, or put bark down, that'll give you a drier site. You can make it more permanent with paving, or similar, later on if you want. :smile:
                  The area that's left - clear everything, cut back all the ivy - or remove it. Then fork the area over just to loosen it all. If it's compacted hard, just adding material won't really help, or not quickly anyway, especially as you're limited in the amount you can add.
                  You can then add your organic matter, and fill it to the level of the edging. The front area in particular could take quite a big amount. Then you'll be ready to plant in spring, which gives you time to research what will suit your climate and conditions, and even buy small plants to grow on for planting in spring. The material you add will settle a bit over winter, so you can add more compost etc when planting. You can add bulbs this time next year, although you could do some this autumn if you can sort the area out well enough. They won't mind extra material being put on top in spring.
                  What you choose depends totally on your climate. I don't know where you are, but I could grow quite a selection there, while others in a much drier, hotter part of the country would have more difficulty. A NW facing site will tend to hold moisture better than a south facing site, but it depends what else is nearby as to how much shade there is all day. In an open site, there will be more than if it's a built up area with lots of nearby housing etc.
                   
                • MCardiff

                  MCardiff Apprentice Gardener

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                  Definitely a pussy willow - confirmed by the (proper) tree surgeons who pollarded it!

                  Thanks, these are helpful tips. The garden is quite exposed and windy, with neighbours' gardens on both sides and just that little hillock at the back. Little shade other than the willow and the fence.
                   
                • Busy-Lizzie

                  Busy-Lizzie Total Gardener

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                  I agree with @fairygirl. I'd deal with the entrance to the shed and I'd fork it over before adding the compost. I'd also fork in some compost first before adding the rest on top. Whatever you do depends a bit on your soil type and what you are planting.

                  I have heavy clay and I know from experience that for planting perennials and shrubs it doesn't work just to add compost on top - whatever Charles Dowding says. The soil has to be improved and lightened up first.

                  I use bought compost as I never seem to have enough homemade. If your chosen plants like poor soil don't add manure, otherwise well rotted manure can be added. You can buy it or ask at a farm or riding stables.

                  Some good plants have been suggested, but most of them like some shade, especially at the hottest time of day.
                   
                • Plantminded

                  Plantminded Keen Gardener

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                  As you like your tree, I would leave it and fill the rectangular bed below it with bark chippings. This would make access to your shed easier but you could add a paving slab to make the entrance more solid. You could then place a couple of large containers on the barked area and plant them up. Personally I'm not very keen on typical ground cover shade lovers, they tend to be small and flower in early spring before trees start to leaf and then look sad. Evergreen ferns like Polystichum varieties are more interesting. Also, Phormiums grow well in containers and will tolerate shade, plus they are evergreen, as is Fatsia Japonica, also giving structural interest. A small Hydrangea would give you flowers but will lose its leaves over winter.
                   
                  Last edited: Sep 11, 2024
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