Ilex (holly) prickly leaves, shady area, for standalone tree or hedging

Discussion in 'Trees' started by ClematisDbee, Oct 5, 2024.

  1. ClematisDbee

    ClematisDbee Gardener

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    I probably need either a small tree or a small length of hedging to act as a security feature along part of my garden boundary. The area is quite shady, near the house wall, but faces west and so would potentially receive some warmth and light during late afternoon to evening.

    Having done some research, I think some variety of Ilex would be best. The soil is naturally sandy and fairly free-draining.

    The main thing is that I need a fast-growing shade tolerant (especially when younger) Ilex which will not grow too wide.

    I might need only one or maybe a short hedge ( about 10 foot wide by 10 foot tall).

    The birds would love it and it would help secure my boundaries, but I would be grateful for your thoughts, pros and cons etc.

    Berries would be good, so either self-pollinating or I could plant two or more plants.

    The main thing is: prickly, shade tolerant and not massive.

    Thankyou for suggestions and thoughts/experiences.
     
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    • Plantminded

      Plantminded Head Gardener

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      Holly would suit that situation @ClematisDbee but it can be slow to get going. Another option, which is also prickly and shade tolerant is Berberis darwinii. It has glossy green leaves, orange flowers in spring and berries which blackbirds love. I inherited one here, it gets just morning sun and is in sandy soil. It's easy to maintain as a shrub or hedge, if you wear gloves :).
       
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      • ricky101

        ricky101 Total Gardener

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        As well as Berberis @Plantminded mentions, Pyracantha will also look good with its green leaves and berries which you can choose between red, orange and yellow.

        Both can be kept in shape by pruning one or twicea year, but get yourself a pairs of hide Welders gauntlets, about £5 screwfix etc , as both their thorns are truly evil !
         
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        • ClematisDbee

          ClematisDbee Gardener

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          Thankyou @Plantminded , yes I was wondering about the slow growth rate with holly. I do like Berberis Dawinii. It sounds as though yours is not in deep shade. I have only seen them for sale in small containers of up to 10 litres max and with a height of about 120 cm max. Would I likely be waiting years do you think? It would need to get to at least 6 to 7 foot as soon as possible - I can't wait long. Maybe I need some kind of fencing too!
           
        • ClematisDbee

          ClematisDbee Gardener

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          Thankyou @ricky101 , I have wanted to plant Pyracantha for ages, but I had not thought of planting one here. Would you say they can cope with quite deep shade? The wall next to the house is probably nearly 6 foot tall from the ground level, so a pyracantha could grow against that and then spill over and be trained a bit.

          I now remember I planted a spiky Mahonia (probably the cultivar Winter Sun) more than 7 years ago. It grew ok for some time and I remember it got to at least 7 foot, but I am not sure if it died naturally (possibly due to lack of light) or whether someone did something to it to hasten its demise. I had forgotten about this until thinking about your pyracantha suggestion!
           
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          • Plantminded

            Plantminded Head Gardener

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            Berberis can tolerate shade @ClematisDbee but flowering will be less than in sun. Mine is shaded by a fence and a large laurel hedge but it seems to grow at least a foot every year. It was like a tree when I moved here but I have reduced it to eye level. Mahonia may be a good option for you, my father had great difficulty trying to kill his :biggrin:.
             
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            • fairygirl

              fairygirl Total Gardener

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              Nothing will be particularly fast growing - anything woody takes a while to establish before it gets going well, even if it's a good, healthy, well sized plant. I don't know how quickly they'd grow in sandy soil as mine is the total opposite.
              Pyracantha will grow in plenty of shade - I've grown it in sites where it got virtually zero sun. I passed my old house the other day where I had it in exactly that site. I don't think the owners realise they can prune it - it's around 10 to 12 feet high.
              Berberis, Mahonia and Ilex will all grow in shade, but don't expect them to be 6 foot in a year or two. All of them will tolerate plenty of wet as well. :smile:
               
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              • Goldenlily26

                Goldenlily26 Super Gardener

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                Remember that plants do not stop growing when they reach the height "we want". They never stop growing so if you plant something fast growing you will have to continually keep pruning it to keep it within bounds. Berberis might be a better option as hollies grow into tall trees and rarely look attractive if lopped to keep the size down. My neighbour has just massacred a variegated holly into a knobbly stump. It has begun to sprout from all over so is still alive but looks awful, and will continue to look awful for a good few years yet as holly is slow growing so you will not get the instant effect you want.. He has done the same to a camellia but there is no sign of life from that yet.
                 
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                • ricky101

                  ricky101 Total Gardener

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                  Also you may want to check this list of Shrubs are suitable for your costal area ?
                  Plants for coastal areas / RHS

                  As said, unless buying some expensive 6ft tall plants, other smaller typical garden center plants will take 2+ years to reach that height, so would think a 6ft fence now would be better and offer some shelter to the new shrubs you decide on.

                  Possibly planting some Montana or other Clematis to give you some colour while the shrubs grow up, the Clematis and also Honeysuckle looked good mingled in the Pyracanthas that we once grew as a 6ft high divider.
                   
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                  • Goldenlily26

                    Goldenlily26 Super Gardener

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                    What about Lonicera fragranstissama?.
                    Non climbing bush honeysuckle.
                    Evergreen.
                    Fragrant tiny butterfly flowers. Dec.- March
                    Moderate growth rate. Can grow several feet tall if left.
                    Can be clipped into a hedge if wanted.
                    Not fussy about soil or aspect. Some sun helps produce flowers.
                    Grows into a dense bush which blackbirds like to nest in.
                    Also produces berries which birds like.
                    No spines or prickles.
                    Large specimens can be purchased at a moderate price.
                    Large plants can be bought at a moderate cost.
                    Winter flowering, Dec./ March.
                    Fragrant, tiny butterfly flowers, creamy white.
                    Non spiny.
                    Can grow to several feet tall if left.
                    Moderate growth rate. Can form a dense bush which blackbirds like to nest in.
                    Not too fussy about soil but some sun for good flower production.
                    Can be cut into a close clipped hedged if wished.
                    Large plants can be bought for amoderate price.
                     
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                    • Goldenlily26

                      Goldenlily26 Super Gardener

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                      Whoops! Apologies for duplicating.
                       
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                      • ClematisDbee

                        ClematisDbee Gardener

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                        Thankyou @Plantminded and I had to smile when you said you reduced it to eye level, because that sounds a bit hazardous! At least you can see it and take action not to bump into it....

                        Re the mahonia, I am beginning to think foul play several years ago killed off mine (Winter Sun I think but can't remember). The irony is I am trying to prevent foul play on the other side of the garden wall, but maybe spiky plants will just spur them on! (They are most certainly NOT gardeners...)
                         
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                        • ClematisDbee

                          ClematisDbee Gardener

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                          Thankyou @fairygirl, that is useful to know about your pyracantha. Maybe pyracantha would suit the narrow, shady space better than ilex, berberis or mahonia, because of it looking ok when pruned and trained towards a wall/fence/trellis.

                          I managed to have a very quick look at the space yesterday, and it is shady because the house wall blocks the sun from the south and other structures including a waterbutt and a stack of battens block out further sun. The only direct sun would be dappled from south west to west coming from behind tall trees, so the sun's rays would get through minimally at certain times, beaming into the highest portions of the space only.
                           
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                          • ClematisDbee

                            ClematisDbee Gardener

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                            Thank you @Goldenlily26, yes I would not want the butchered look. I would not want the holly to become a tall trees and was under the impression there are some that never reach 20feet, for instance. My idea would be to keep it under control from the beginning.

                            I am sorry you have to see what your neighbour has done to their poor holly and camellia. It sounds quite distressing, all around.

                            I am moving away from holly at the moment and leaning towards pyracantha, but not sure yet!
                             
                          • ClematisDbee

                            ClematisDbee Gardener

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                            Thankyou @ricky101, I can see how that would look really good. I am not sure I have the space for much more, but it might be possible. My reservation would be that I planted 3 lonicera in this general area over ten years' ago (@) but the people on the other side of the wall, ripped and pulled out loads of it while in flower ( flowering more on their north-facing side than mine, the ungrateful flowers!) and it never recovered (Belgica and Serotina, I think). They took ages to grow too, though I did not give them the best start in terms of soil prep.

                            Thankyou for your earlier tip re welders' gauntlets, by the way!
                             
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