Latest Moan From You and Me 2024

Discussion in 'Off-Topic Discussion' started by JWK, Jan 1, 2024.

  1. KT53

    KT53 Gardener

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    I agree but those photographs were taken in 2006 and they are obviously still using the same landing areas. We saw lots of bad landings and in most of them the pilot was more interested in saving their own skin than that of their 'passenger'. That's why I wonder if there is any insurance cover provided by the operator - probably not and a disclaimer required.
    It's probably questionable how far the injured woman would get in trying to sue, despite clearly not taking part in the paragliding.
     
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    • pete

      pete Growing a bit of this and a bit of that....

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      A tricky subject but I'm all f or assisted dying for those that want it, but I think the way its being put forward is stumbling for me from the beginning, its the part where you have to administer the final dose yourself.
      Surely in many cases it will mean you have to do it far in advance of you being at the point of death.
      I also think that if it ever does get the green light it will end up like the stupidity surrounding medicinal cannabis, its legal but no doctor will prescribe it.
       
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      • KT53

        KT53 Gardener

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        I think that even with organisations like Dignitas, the patient (for want of a better description) has to administer the dose themselves. I'm guessing that there are devices that can be provided for people even with minimal movement to help the process.
        I am in favour of assisted dying. It's been said many times before that the law will prosecute if you permit an animal to suffer needlessly, but you will be prosecuted if you dare to try to prevent a human being from suffering needlessly.
         
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        • pete

          pete Growing a bit of this and a bit of that....

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          OK I didn't realise that, but even so, you still have to be able to travel there,, so you are not IMO on your last legs,
          Surely its something that should only be done when you are in a really bad state and in many cases probably unable to move.

          I totally understand the decision needs to be made when you are in a good frame of mind but not the final deed.
          It just seems wrong that they are saying it has to be done when you are fully conscious and able to move around, personally I'd only want it for myself as a very last resort.
           
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          • CanadianLori

            CanadianLori Total Gardener

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            Over here, after you've been approved for MAID, a doctor assists you, where you are. A friend of mine attended her husband's last moments while doctors gently administered humane meds to end his life. He had been suffering greatly with terminal cancer. They did this, by appointment, at their home. They helped to arrange removal of his remains as per her wishes and made sure she was coping before leaving.

            It was not an easy process to launch because they were careful about his wishes and cautious about his resolve.

            All was done in a caring manner.
             
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            • Loofah

              Loofah Admin Staff Member

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              I'm all for a discussion around introducing it to the UK; I would hope they have already seen how it is done in other places and if there are any legal challenges, what are the processes and control etc.
              A really tough subject
               
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              • Obelix-Vendée

                Obelix-Vendée Head Gardener

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                @pete I don't see why you have to at the point of total incapacity to be eligible for assisted dying. If I was in extreme pain and knew it was never getting any better and could only get worse I don't see why I should have to put up with it if I don't want to. I'd want a peaceful, dignified exit, preferably in the presence of someone I love and a professional to make it go smoothly - like we do with our dogs and cats when the time comes.
                 
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                  Last edited: Nov 12, 2024 at 10:43 PM
                • noisette47

                  noisette47 Total Gardener

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                  It's done tacitly, unofficially, over here. My dear friend was in the same situation a few years ago. The docs took the treatment for pancreatic cancer as far as it could 'usefully' go, then, in their own home, his wife was given control of the pain-killing dosing machine and they were left to decide when was the 'right' moment for her to administer the final dose. A hell of a responsibility for anyone to cope with, but it was right for them.
                   
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                  • pete

                    pete Growing a bit of this and a bit of that....

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                    Maybe I worded it wrong, but I was thinking of cases where it's progressive and you reach the point where you can't do it yourself.
                    I agree that you should be able to make your wishes know before you become totally incapacitated, but if they are going to make you take the final step yourself, you might have to do it while you can still move your hands etc.

                    What if you are totally out of it on painkillers but they are not working.
                     
                  • Ergates

                    Ergates Super Gardener

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                    If I was in pain from something terminal, I’d want the doses of painkillers increased and increased to ensure I wasn’t in any discomfort. I wouldn’t consider that as assisted dying? There comes a point when the advantages of a drug -patient comfort- outweigh the disadvantages - likely fatal.

                    I had a ridulous situation after my mother was left unconscious after a stroke, and we wanted to bring her home to care for her there. The hospital doctor - very senior- was very happy to organise this, but wanted to include removing her feeding tube. When I remonstrated about that, she advised me that it wasn’t safe for her to have the feeding tube in at home, as it might become dislodged and she could die from getting the liquid food in her lungs. She couldn’t come up with a sensible answer when I asked how she would survive without any feeding tube. - She did come home with the feeding tube, and was cared for by family, which included nurses and other medical professionals. She eventually died peacefully at home.
                     
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                    • ViewAhead

                      ViewAhead Head Gardener

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                      How can something be a "non-criminal hate crime"? Surely if it is non-criminal, it is not a crime? And why would the police be recording non-crimes in the first place? Haven't they got any proper crimes to investigate? :scratch:
                       
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                      • CanadianLori

                        CanadianLori Total Gardener

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                        We have a new conundrum that is trying to be deciphered. At the moment you must be mentally competent to qualify to have MAID.

                        People with terminal illnesses which render them incapable of making "informed" decisions toward the end of their time may want to "predetermine" their time of passing.

                        Quebec is trying to formulate a way that these people can make advanced directives to handle the situation should they become unable to later on. Such as, "if I become so agitated that I am constantly crying or screaming and not making any sense": "if my body is constantly needing high pain medications and causing me distress even though I am semi-comatose".

                        That type of thing. And of course, there is also the problem of just how far in advance you can make that directive.

                        I don't know how they're going to manage these scenarios but it will be interesting to witness how it rolls out. :scratch:

                        It seems it would be like an extension of the Do Not Resuscitate directive.
                         
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                          Last edited: Nov 13, 2024 at 7:02 PM
                        • Philippa

                          Philippa Gardener

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                          I thought the whole idea behind Assisted Dying was precisely that - you receive "assistance" when/if you are physically incapable of managing it yourself. Another problem is accessing the necessary drug legally unless a medical professional is willing to supply it.
                          Whilst I welcome the Private Members Bill up for debate at the moment which requires 2 individual doctors to agree, I'm not too sure about the added requirement of a high court judge to rubberstamp the request. Not only is our justice system not infallible, it can only prolong the decision making - possibly to the detriment of the person involved.
                          I would also suggest that the "6 month life expectancy" caveat needs a rethink.
                           
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                          • ViewAhead

                            ViewAhead Head Gardener

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                            So, William is going to sort out homelessness and now Camilla is going to bring an end to domestic abuse. Well, isn't it lucky we have these pampered rich folk with time on their hands to spout endless do-gooding sentiments.

                            *rolls eyes theatrically*
                             
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                            • pete

                              pete Growing a bit of this and a bit of that....

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                              You old synic, you.:biggrin:
                              One can only try, cannot One.
                               
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