A blank cavass- help required

Well being a daylily addict, I would have to recommend the every hardy and all surviving daylily - sorry !!!!! they really do not need a lot of fussing.

 

sorry, for having an opinion.

...Oh wait, it's a forum and all are welcome to give their own personal opinions. I love it when we agree Dim!! I certainly wasn't getting bothered by you expressing your ideas. Only with the recent trend for tropicals/exotics in all the gardening media, when I don't happen to think it's the ONLY option.
I happen to like these very much when done well. I just don't like it being the only option suggested to ppl who might not understand about winter protection etc.

I wouldn't go for a cottage garden planting for anybody who didn't want to do a bit of maintenance either.

I also use lots of ferns AND .....adding a new Heuchera to my collection gives me the same sort of buzz that some women get from a new handbag or pair of shoes.
As for Choisya in hard winter, yes you are dead right there, unless they are in protection of a house wall or a bit of shelter they look just as bad as a Fatsia would in the same conditions.

Regarding the Alchemilla and Euonymus being common, depends how you use them.
Anyway, common as muck...thats me

 

:D .... on your previous post you did say that you were bothered with my suggestions of tropical/exotic plants

and, as you state, we are all entitled to our own opinions on a forum, so I have merely given mine in response to yours....

and I never get 'bothered' when someone else suggests otherwise ...

however, if you look at my suggestions, most are common plants that are planted with a few palms, a few hostas and a few ferns to give a tropical type 'effect'... with a few dotted around for scent/smell ....

and the majority are selected for foilage and colour, rather than blooms

as for winter protection, the ones that I suggest don't need any winter protection in zone 8 (greater part of the UK), but a good mulch of well rotted manure does no harm (especially for huecheras, as some tend to 'heave' during winter) .... Hostas need snail/slug bait or garlic spray

I never advise people to plant tree ferns, as they need protection in winter

as for fatsia, if planted in shade/semishade, in winter, they droop in the cold evening/early morning, but recover as soon as the sun emerges (one of my favourite plants and as hard as nails)

I do plant cottage style ... however, my personal preference is exotic style .... and it works out much cheaper (and is less hassle IMHO)

and, as mentioned, the person who will be buying the plants will have your ideas, and mine and everyone else's, then make up his/her own mind as what he/she prefers

 

Any reply to my question about soot at on page 3?!

 

not sure

but I can say that a few years back, I done some heavy pruning in a garden ... the owner said I should stack them in the centre of the lawn and let them dry for a few weeks

done so, then made a huge bonfire ....

the area where the bonfire was, caused the grass to go very green ... a few months later, I had to add high nitrogen fertilizer to the whole lawn, as it looked odd with the dark green patch caused by the ashes

not sure if it is recommended to use ash frequently (perhaps thats what potash is?)

not sure about soot from a chimney? ...

 

You don't seem to hear as much nowadays about using soot in the garden do you? I suppose it's something that everybody had once, whereas now it's only some people...(and being a sweep you'll have more than most people!)

There used to be a soot heap on our local allotment and I have vague memories of ppl using it for onions and brassicas?

Fresh coal dust is brilliant for using as a slug deterent, my dad always used it when he was earthing up his trench celery...but the celery was wrapped in paper so the fact that fresh soot is caustic didn't matter.
I think it contains some Nitrogen in the form of sulphate of ammonia, but because it's caustic when fresh, to use as a fertiliser it needs storing in bags for several months first.
Some ppl say that if you use soot as a soil conditioner it darkens the soil and so absorbs more sun?

The soot from wood burner chimneys is going to be different to from coal. Then, soft wood is going to produce a more acid soot than hardwood...and if someones burnt wood with creosote or painted woods, there's going to be the chance of chemicals being present that might be harmful.

I suppose it's this range of variables that makes it difficult to know exactly what's in a bag of soot!

I've googled soot and found this
Advice please Soot - Allotment and Vegetable Gardening

 

Did you notice NOTHING ever grew on that pile of soot ?

Back in the 50's our house was about 100yards from the first Farm field
There was a steep embankment down to it which was full of hawthorn trees

The sweep used to drop tons of it down the embankment, as a child I would not have known what the effect would be, but I remember the trees were always heavy with bloom, and full of birdlife, though the soot/soil below them was devoid of weeds grass anything really,

Not answered anything to the original question, other than observed nothing grows on it ?

Maybe the sweep on here can advise the difference between soot then and soot now
In the 50's it was just pure coal soot
Now it is anthracite soot, green wood soot, mature wood soot, peat soot and very little gas coal soot, so I would believe its chemical compounds will be totally different to that of Gardeners of Old

Armandii do you have soot in some of your OLD GARDEN BOOK COLLECTION the use of ?

Jack McH

 

I think the soot back then was more pure, these days people burner all manner of rubbish, pressure treated off cuts contain arsenic, old architrave contains lead paint! It seems if it burns people burn it now to save money!

 

My 2p worth:

For someone keen enough to have a go I think Exotic is a potentially winning choice:

Many of the plants grow like stink, so will matured long before Shrubs and the like would do.

Some of the plants are massive - so compared to Herbaceous perennials the number of plants can be much lower, and cost with it.

Some plants can be relatively cheap; decent sized Palms are expensive, but so are ready-made-topiary if you wanted to have some of those in a "conventional" garden. Exotic Nurseries tend to have big sales in the Winter - they don't want to pay to keep the marginally tender plants alive (more prone to catching a cold in a nursery pot than in the ground, so I'm referring to things that will be OK over winter once planted). Probaly less ideal as you move further North though ...

Urban Jungle had 50% off last weekend, and Amulree had 50% off during the Autumn (dunno if that is still running). Both are near Norwich (worth a visit to Will Giles garden in Norwich, and Urban Jungle has a show garden, you can visit all three in an afternoon - although the gardens is only On Show in the Summer/Autumn season and while I'm on a roll visit East Ruston Old Vicarage as part of the same pilgrimage, for my money it is the most awe inspiring garden I have ever visited; it has an exotic garden, but is huge so will take all afternoon to wander round)

There are issues with keeping some Exotic plants alive over winter, and a lot depends on how much effort you want to go to. Quite a few things will be quite happy dug up and dumped in the garage with no, or very little, water during the winter and no light - just frost-free conditions, although there is the hassle of digging them up and getting them indoors (but that is often done for Dahlias, Gladioli and so on in "conventional gardens" - so perhaps no greater effort?)

But relative to Conventional Gardens the instant lush foliage of Exotics gives a flying start to a "blank canvass" IMHO.

 

good post, and exactly my point

one does not have to only plant exotics .... plant one or 2 trachycarpus fortunei palms as a focal point ....

then, add a musa basjoo, a T-Rex, a fatsia spiderweb, some evergreen hardy ferns, etc...

a few large leaved hostas, a few bright coloured huechera

for fragrance add an Elaeagnus x ebbingei , a sweetbox, some star jasmine, a mock orange ... a clematis fragrant oberon etc

a photinia red robin, a smoke bush, a sambucus black lace, one or two clematis, a japanese maple, a few evergreen shrubs as your backbone ... some Hakonechloa macra 'Aureola' on the edging etc etc

and for annuals, instead of buying trays of pansies, buy trays of coleus for the same price ....

plant for foilage and colour instead of blooms/flowers ... and all above mentioned need no special winterising in most parts of the UK (zone 8) ...

and you will have a decent looking garden that works out cost wise much cheaper and less hassle that a cottage style garden .... most of the exotic shrubs such as musa, canna, fatsia etc cost less than a tenner each and take up big space

once the garden matures, check for gaps and if you are up for it, add more exotic style plants that are more tender such as tree ferns etc

many people like this style of planting once they have seen a few examples

this is the style I enjoy planting:

 

"and for annuals, instead of buying trays of pansies, buy trays of coleus for the same price ...."

And you can dig a few Coleus up in the Autumn, stick them in a pot on a windowsill for some Winter colour, and then probably get a dozen cuttings off each one in the Spring and not have to buy any next year. Ker-ching!

I dunno, maybe being a recent convert to Exotic gardening I'm a bit head-in-the-clouds, but I reckon if you have some non-gardening (or even conventional-gardening) mates round they are going to go "Wow" and "Double-Wow" !!

For anyone who is interested :thumb: on my Blog I have got some pictures of Will Giles garden and Urban Jungle's show garden (and the Exotic Garden at East Ruston Old Vicarage)

 

Did i open a can of worms??! Id never considered exotics, ive driven passed akamba in solihull everyday for the last ten years and never been in, i always thought " who wants a palm tree in the uk? The leaves curl and go brown and looks terrible" i had no idea that exotics look brill, thanks dim. My folks have traditional mature garden, i am gonna shock them in spring! My dad will frown and mutter under his breath i bet. Haha.

 

Chistopher "Christo" Lloyd did much the same. He's dead now, sadly, but was a very entertaining gardener - he had an enticing and entertaining writing style, well worth getting some of his books to read if you get the chance.

Anyways, he ripped out the formal rose garden at his family home (it had been designed by Lutens ...) and planted exotics in their place. The whole of the gardening press and cognescenti was up in arms!

The effect is impressively different - a small area of exotics with the tiny paths from between the rose original garden beds, so you have to push your way through the plants - more Jungle than Exotic.

Its a great garden to visit if you get the chance - Great Dixter - its near Sissinghurst - the nation's "most visited garden" I think - it doesn't so anything for me, but its one to visit nonetheless, and close enough to do both the same day.

 

ant1977...no, you didn't open a can of worms at all.

I think I'm (hopefully?) a bit better at gardening than getting my point across sometimes.
I probably shouldn't have even made the comment I did about being 'a bit bothered...' because I think Dim has every right to suggest, design and plant as many of these gardens as he likes, (I like that he is clearly passionate about them too)

Please can I just make it clear now for the record that I like exotic/tropical style gardening. I like all sorts of SO many styles of gardening when they are done well, but I do think that it happens to be the most written about, most featured style at the moment and ......I have no right to hold Dim responsible for this!!

Maybe I'm just not keen on the way it's often described as 'tropical/exotic' style compared to 'conventional style'....as if every other style of garden is all the same and has been around for ages.

I mean, there are new ideas all the time and some real cutting edge stuff, now just as there always has been. Over the years there have been so many good designers that have come up with new ways of manipulating nature to create good gardens.

I like the way Beth Chatto can evoke the feeling of a wild landscape in a smaller space, by using groups of plants for a specific type of landscape, such as drought tolerant etc..... And I also like the way Christopher Lloyd was a genius in the way he could mix plants from totally different habitats to show them off in provocative ways too. But which is best? FIGHT....
....No, I don't think we should have a Harry Hill moment here, because they're both good. Just like some Exotic gardens.

I think the use of architectural plants and the use of texture and colour in foliage is really important, in any sort of planting, so can appreciate a well executed exotic garden, I really can!

So long as we don't forget the beauty and importance of plants that change through the year too. Like deciduous trees and shrubs with good bark and tree shape, e.g. Acer griseum. Spring blossom and good Autumn colour, e.g. Prunus incisa 'Kojo no mai' and a whole host of plants with berries and fruit for wildlife and flowers for insects, then I'll be happy. :D

 

I agree 100% .... all styles are nice .... I even landscaped in Japansese style for a client .... never liked it at first, as plants are few and far apart with shale stone instead of grass ....

they showed me a picture from a book, and i copied the style

that was 3 years ago .... I still maintain that garden, even though there is not much to do .... but I actually enjoy sitting and relaxing in that garden

if I were to plan my own garden in the UK, (I am only renting at the moment), I would plant exotic style ....

perhaps it is because I lived on the east coast of south africa (Durban area) for most of my life where all gardens were in this style (coldest temp in winter was approx 16 degrees C and summers averaged in the mid 30's)