Compost/soil/MANURE

Evening "new gardeners"
Well i did say last night i'd explain how the soil / manure etc works and what your trying to do with your soils ect But i thought as a lot of the new gardeners will be dealing with sowing seeds first i'd better start with the compost and what this is all about.

The first sort of compost im going to talk about is the bought bags that you'd buy from the garden centre's etc and the reason im starting here is because of the bug free side of this compost.

When you buy the vacuumed sealed bags of compost from the supply chain (garden centre or shops these days) your buying the best bet as to this compost being bug free and if your going to sow seeds in a warm place its the ideal conditions for bugs ect to live and so this is why its so important to have the cleanest compost you can get (we'll deal with bugs at a much later date)

But your first sight of the compost section in the supply store will make you wonder whats all this (a) seed compost (b) john inners number 2compost (john inners number 3 compost and so on)

why seed compost? What is the difference between seed and all these others????????????

Lets firstly talk about the well known name of John inner.

Test we're taken many years ago to see what was the best growing medium for plants, what did they really need to thrive, and what was wrong with trying to grow seeds in any compost?

It was an american Lab that was the testing giant for these testing of growing medium and it was john inner who was the leader in the best results and these verious grades of compost we're marketed under the name of john inner,

SEED COMPOST.
These test of growing conditions for seeds soon found that the seeds already had all the food within the seed pod's for the seeds not to need any help once they we're sprung into life,
But they also found that if the seed covering ie the compost was to heavy and held to much moisture the seeds could'nt break through and rotted under this heavy compost (remember what i said about plants needing light? Yesterday?)

Well test showed that a much lighter seed compost was needed to aid the seeds once they'd left the pod, this compost had to retain moist but not hold to much as the seeds would rot, and this compost needed to be able to retain warmth.

This is why we have seed compost, it wont have much in the compost ref food but its designed to help the seeds break through its covering without it being drowned in a wet heavy covering.

Now you've read this need for seed compost you should also understand that seeds cant live for long in this compost and when they are at the correct size they need tobe re-potted in the next compost,

John inner 2/3 ect,
This is the point we're the next compost come into the growing on stage,
the likes of john inner number 2 & 3 are a higher graded or to put it another way these higher mixed compost contain the verious mixes for the feeding of both the plants root system's and the above ground plant sections, ie leaves /bud formations ect and a well balanced diet from such compost results in a strong healthy plant and this also helps the plants fight verious virus related problems.

Now ive given you a very basic understanding of the vacuumed bought compost, all the information ref whats in the mix inside the bag is on the outside information guide of the bag, by reading this info it will tell you how strong the mix is and if its for acid loving plants ect.


Home made compost,
Whats it all about?
Well home made compost is all the waste from your garden and indeed kitchen was, and some household waste can be used to make your own compost,

Compost is the breakdown of the garden leaves, plants grass cuttings,
earth sods, the list is long and so i think it will be better if i list at the end of this section all the verious items you can compost,

What your after is a thing (micro orgism) called hummus, this is millions of these micro orgism's eating away at all this waste and its their passing of the chewed waste that becomes lovely compost, full of everything the garden needs,

I myself have 4 x composting cages, all made from old pallets just nailed together and covered with old matting or black polythiene.

The reason you need at least 3 compost sections made are that section 1 is the one you'd start filling up first, (in the summer you'll be amazed how quickly this will be filled) once its full to the top cover the heap and ensure you water it well once a week at least (water helps the rotting of the materials)

Now go to number 3 section (leave the middle one empty for now you'll see why later)

And again start to fill this section as you garden daily and ensure you put the kitchen waste on these heaps,
Just keep on filling and watering as you go (remember number one needs watering too)

Time to think!
In the number one heap, the contents at the bottom will be rotting much quicker than those at the top of the heap! (Agreed?)

Now this is we're the middle empty compost container comes into action,

All the contents of number one will need turning over "so that the waste at the top of the heap can have a chance to rot-down and this is we're you fork all the contents of number one heap into the number 3 empty container,
As im sure you'll understand all the top of number 1 ends up on the floor of number 2 and the well advanced bottom stuff will end up at the top of your now number 2 heap,
Note that as the rotting waste rots the heap will become much smaller and so if you wish to keep your well rotted compost for a later date you can build a seperate well rotted heap and have your now empty compost container ready to start all over again.

Back to number 3 container, you would have continued to fill this while your turning the first stuff into the middle container,
when number 3 is full just repeat as you did before and turn all number 3 into number 1 and this is the best way to have the compost rotting from bottom to top, you really need to both water a cover the heap and ensure if you want to use the compost during the season to turn it over time & time again until all you see is a powdery compost.


MANURE'S
Horse/cow /GOAT/ HOPS ECT ECT,
Im only going to talk about horse and cow manure because of one reason, these are the two most common for most folk to be able to get their hands on, Now i now someones going to come on here and say what about spent mushrooms etc, (well another day another subject)

The learner gardener needs to know whats the difference between horse manure & cow manure?????

It's as simple as hot & cold,
Horse manure is whats known as hot manure, the reason being is that because of the horses diet and its digestive system the horse manure is more compacted when its passed through its body and lads on the floor,
it stays warmer a lot longer and it can be used the same day its delivered from the horse on the allotment, it will if used on a compost heap heat the heap up much faster than cow's manure, and its a much nicer experience to collect than cow manure.

COW MANURE,
Now out of the two (horse & cow) it's the cow manure thats known as the colder of the two and this is because inspite of both animals eating grass ect the cow's digestive system is different from the horse and the delivery of the cows manure is very sloppy and after its collected it cant or shouldnt be used for a few weeks near fresh growing foods as it has'nt finished breaking down and its still active and far to strong for the veg plot,
But its ideal for the compost heap as it will aid the rotting down of the heap.

Now having tried to explain to the new to gardening the reason we have verious compost and the reason we have seed compost, And why vacuumed packed is a lesser chanced compost ref bugs in warm growing areas,
(the outside comost heap is open to all airbourn flies ect)

and now the manure's (or at least the two commonly used manure's)
I hope its given you the insight to understand that to get good results you do need to understand as much as possible about what & why in gardening we do things.
All im going to add is that good soil is made via getting it right and keeping it that way "I was given some advice many years ago and its this"

Think of the garden like a bank account, everytime you take something out
(ie food or flowers) put something back (compost or well rotted manure)

If you dont and you just keep taking out you'll end up with an empty account (the soil wont have any good in it) and the plants wont get what the need, Now the new allotment holder should understand that once the ground is cleared you need to test the soil and how and why you need compost/manure, The grass and brambles you removed once lived on something! and you need to put back the goodness in the soil.

TOMORROW.
The compost list of what you can compost.
CHEERS;

 

May I just point out that once horse and cattle manure has been properly "composted" they are the same basic product,ie, composted manure.

 

Thanks for this, I've always wondered about this and to be honest I thought it was just a marketing thing, much the same as the potato grow sacks that cost a tenner each and are just sacks. Now I know.

But it does raise one question, and bearing in mind that I don't have very much experience in raising plants from seed.

If seed compost has to be easy to break through and not soggy, wouldn't sand almost meet the criteria? Especially if mixed with a small quantity of general purpose compost just to hold a bit of moisture?

In fact, would it not seem logical to fill a seed tray 3/4 full with compost, and then the rest sand, and sow into that, such that the seedling in its early stages is in sand, but by the time it runs out of stored nutrients its root will have reach down as far as the compost.

Whenever I've sowed seeds, I've always used sand on top of general purpose compost, but not for the reasons I've just suggested. I do it because sand being airy and free draining, its not so hospitable for fungi.

 

Clueless, you don`t need seed compost. Multi or General purpose compost is fine. You usually cover the seeds very lightly with the compost or you can cover with perlite.They will germinate just fine.

 

Dai
Can we use Vermiculite too ? For this or is that different please

Jack McH

 

The horse will heat up the compost heap the cow wont (unless it comes with straw)

The horse you can use the same day its delivered, and it wont harm the plants
The cow it its put near the plants on its day of delivery will burn the plant alive.

Horse manure is of a higher P.H. factor than cow manure, and this is a fact as to the cost of vacummed horse manure "both when bought are sold as rotted manure, hence the difference in grade and price!

If i was given the choice of product" I'd go for horse everytime".

 

can you put horse manure fresh straight onto flower beds?? i was led to believe it had to rest for 12 months ??

 

Horse manure must be rotted down and not used *fresh*, it contains amonnia and will also burn your plants. I would not use any manure fresh.

As for seed compost I have found that the famous John Innes seed compost dries out to quickly and if this happens it can be difficult to "dib out" seedlings even if you re-wet the medium. I'd recommend that only experienced gardeners use John Innes seed compost. I prefer a much lighter mix, measured out in parts, 1 x xpade of this 2 of that etc, mixed in the wheelbarrow.

2 x Leaf Mould. (To keep the mix light and airy)
1 x Garden Compost. (as a medium and small source of food)
1 x Loam (or garden soil).(to get the plants used to your particular soil)
1 x Sharp sand. (for drainage)

http://gardenerscorner.co.uk/forum/composting-recycling/38846-compost-mixes.html

Turning your compost every two weeks is not overkill either and when transorting one forfull of compost to another heap, it helps to throw it into the air a foot, let it land and break up on the fork then let it fall to the new heap, this redistributes the compost finely and adds the all important air at the same time which will help to re-heat your heap a lot quicker.

Hot heaps only really happen if it's big enough I would say 3 foot high, wide and deep, anything smaller and you;ll probably not get a decent heat from it. With this in mind if your heap does not heat up too much then you'd be well advised to avoid composting weeds with their seeds, and certainly not perrenial weeds, put them in your green bin as the councils composting process will definately kill them.

Steve...

 

Certainly Jack, it`s natures version of Perlite.

 

Spot on Steve.

 

Horse manure, I use it regular and infact this monday im due to have a trailer load delivered, part of this will be fresh that morning and 'i'll spread a lot of this manure onto my 40ft x 6ft rose bed, with all the winter still to come this manure will act as a mulch and in the spring it will be turned into the top 4 inch via the "mantis" tiller.

Ive used horse manure fresh for many years and as long as you keep a small space from the stems of your plants you wont have burn,
But you dont need to keep horse manure for 12 month before use,

another good tip ref the use of manure is to dig your pea / bean trench out and fill it "now" with manure, by sowing time the trench will be ready for sowing.

 

have a look at the reply the reply to clueless i feel this will explain:yess:

 

Once, my Dad had access to the ELEPHANT HOUSE, we carted away ten bags of fresh Elephant dung
Put it all around the border of a very small garden, and within five days, everything including the privet was dead

I can not remember if anything every grew again (too young at the time)

Jack McH

 

Allowing it to break down with the frost is all well and good, after all that's a form of composting, as long as the plants can take it and you've placed it so as to avoid damaging plants from it's inherent ammoniac properties. But then again you lose the benefits of correctly composted manure as the winter rains will most likely wash away a high percentage of any goodness/nutrients that composted manure has, but you'll have a good soil conditioner if nothing else.

Far better would be to correctly compost, over winter, under cover and apply in the spring then you will have the same soil conditioner plus nutrients for your plants that you can then till into the top 4 inches..

Steve...