Why grow organic?

I would like to buy organic but i don't trust it , seeing things going on which shouldn't be, but saying that it's the same in none organic as well ie people breaking the rules and the law. so you take yer changes with both

I have no problem with organic or none organic you choose,
People saying it's organic when it's not, and you pay the organic prices
and people don't use properly skull and crossbone chemicals which will, and have put live at risk.Which i've seen many times in the past

 

Interesting debate.
When we moved to our current address 24 years ago, I made the decision to manage the garden organically. This was based on my experiences of some dodgy pesticide practices I had witnessed, when I worked firstly in glasshouse salad production and later in grounds maintenance. I decided I did not want to repeat those practices on my own little patch of the planet, I wanted a healthy, vibrant garden for my children to grow up and play in.

I've stuck with it over the years, it's been interesting and informative, although the results have been mixed if I'm honest.
Based purely on my own experiences, I would offer the following:

Gardening organically has meant having to accept that there are certain plants and vegetables which I simply cannot grow in this garden, by this method. I have onion white rot in my soil, which rules out growing leeks, onions, shallots or garlic. There is no effective organic control method. Same with carrot fly, the sandy soil here is perfect for growing carrots, but they will be riddled with holes. Yes, I have tried all the organic methods of controlling carrot fly, all have failed.
So, I do not grow onions or carrots. Trial and error has taught me which vegetables I can grow and which pests and diseases I can control so I've adapted and adjusted accordingly.

Given time, nature will find it's own balance. When we first moved here, the previous incumbents had various plants and flowers which were simply unable to survive in this garden without constant intervention; plants which were susceptible to aphids, slugs and snails, rusts and so on. So, rather than fighting a constant battle against these problems, I let nature take it's course. Some plants have disappeared form my garden altogether as a result, but I have also noticed fewer of the pests and diseases which affected them. To put it simply, take away the host and the pest is no longer such a problem.
I have also noticed a steady increase in the number of beneficial species present over the years. I have not eliminated aphids or snails, but ladybirds, hover flies, birds, frogs and toads etc. keep them to levels where they are not a big problem.

So, while I have a garden which gives me great pleasure with it's rich variety of plants, insect life and so on, I'm glad we don't have to rely on what it produces to feed ourselves, as we would surely starve!

 

Its gone too far for that attitude, you can perhaps take that approach in your own back yard but globally there are too many mouths to feed.

Its not that I like the situation we have at the moment, I dont.
But you have to be realistic.

I agree we are killing the planet.

What we actually need is 200 million volunteers to commit suicide.

 

As Pete says, the root cause of the problem is overpopulation. Too many humans on the planet, far more than can be sustained without huge inputs of energy, pesticides and artificial fertilizers to keep them all fed.
People are living longer, natural population limiting factors such as disease and starvation have been reduced and in some cases eradicated.
However, as mentioned in the OP, we appear to have replaced these factors with other problems, an increasing number of people now suffer from asthma and allergies, not to mention the epidemic of obesity and its resultant health effects.
While pesticides and artificial fertilizers have enabled us to produce vastly increased crop yields, it must be remembered that everything comes at a price.

 

there are organic pesticides that work brilliantly ... neem oil is one of them ...
lots of info on google and some say it sorts carrot fly

for slugs and snails, you have nemaslug

 

I have the same problem with infected & infection free areas, but still grow loads of onions, leeks, garlic, shallots, spring onions, chives, etc.

Can't you construct some isolated raised beds filled with imported topsoil, spent compost from pots/baskets, reduced stuff from garden centres, etc.? You do however need to keep a completely separate set of digging tools for them and also remember not to stand a water can on infected soil and then dip it in a butt used for watering the new beds.

 

I'm much like Trunky in my approach, although I do resort to Bordeaux mixture and the occasional use of glyphosate.

I use blightwatch alerts for info about when to spray, so i'm not doing it as a matter of course, keeping it to the minimum. Wouldn't get a Tomato & Spud harvest otherwise.

As for the other stuff, on the open plot I grow slug resistant salads like Lollo ross, Rocket & Mizuna.

Stuff that will get eaten stays in the coldframe, where I can keep an eye on the snails that try to get in.

Not got Onion White Rot but there is something that turns my Leeks to slime halfway thru the year so i'm trying them in the coldframe this year till I can work out whats doing it.

Carrots get fly on the main plot so the bulk are in the coldframe. Got a few in open ground but i'll pick them all at once to stop them homing in on the smell of the bruised foliage.

Wouldn't bother with organic seeds, can't see that much residue being passed onto the soil or plants thru a seed.

 

Never been able to see the point of those myself.

Snaffling clear plastic pot trays from Homebase enables slug/snail detection prior to possible slug pellet overkill and hardening off plants on a stand with the legs protected by copper tape are 2 methods I use.


EDIT: The only sug pellets I use are Organic ones, and are used within covered areas such as within coldframes.

 

Misread that & got an image of you with copper bands just above your socks

I only use slug pellets within the coldframe due to Mr Hedgepig being on the plot.

 

Good suggestion Scrungee, that's something I'll consider as a future project.

Luckily, I've found a useful 'solution' to this and other pest problems at present. In the garden where I work, which is several miles from home and on a different soil type to my home garden, the owner (a keen gardener himself) lets us use a small plot of land to grow our own vegetables, where I find I can usually grow most of the vegetables which don't perform well at home.

 

I don't think anyone thinks its pointless. From what I've seen, people are just sharing their experiences, opinions, and raising questions. All vital to healthy debate.

The bit you re-quoted refers to chemical fertilisers and pesticides, but I'm sure you know that to be able to say that you grow organically, its much more than just eliminating these two categories of products from your regime.

In any case, it is very much one sided and some might say misleading to point out that chemical products have adverse effects, thus implying that organic things never have adverse effects. Lets say if someone was brewing poison hemlock and spraying onto the lettuce as an organic pesticide (I don't know if that would even work). That product is entirely organic, yet poisonous enough to make the crop pretty risky to eat. We should also note that there have been cases of animal slurry making its way into the water, and causing all manner of problems.

The claim that chemical products cause all these adverse issues is also very broad. Are we saying that ALL chemical products should be eliminated? What about fungicides to protect potatoes from blight for example?

We also have to consider the less obvious environmental issues. Personally, I'd prefer to use well rotted manure to fertilise my gardens, but the fact is it is bulky. If one small box of miracle grow can provide as much nutrition to my patch of ground as say one tonne of rotted manure, how many HGVs would be putting on the roads if we all used horse poo? Would there even be enough of the stuff? I know that's an extreme example and its not my point for it to be taken literally, I'm just throwing often overlooked points into the mix.

 

I think many are missing the point about organic ... it's not about cost ... it's about nutrition and health .... many/some dont mind paying a bit extra for this ... and many are also using this technique for their normal gardens (shrubs/perennials etc)

the majority of the public dont really care and are ignorant .... they are on 'tight budgets', so buy what is cheapest and many don't know about the other methods

if you are interested in this sort of growing, research a bit about paul gautschi ... lots of info on youtube and google

 

If Miracle Grow (for example) provides the minerals that the plant needs, and horse poo also provides the minerals the plant needs, why would one produce a better result than the other?

That's not me being ignorant. Quite the opposite, I would love to know the reason.

I've said before on other threads that the best taties grow in horse poo. Fairly fresh horse poo at that. That's my experience. What I don't get is why. Has this been studied scientifically? It could be that the local climate, soil type, and watering regime did it and all the horse poo did is made sure the nutrients were there, which a chemical could have done perhaps.

Dim, I'm not convinced about the nutrition/health part. Is there any reputable scientific evidence on this point? I'm sure I heard a while ago that a massive study concluded that there was not enough variation between the results to form a conclusion one way or the other.

 

If those companies who want to feed others, elsewhere in the world with GMO crops, perhaps also enhanced with loads of petro-chemicaly produced fertilizers & pesticides, why do they need to grow them in the UK?



Wouldn't it be more rational to check them out in the countries they are 'intended' to be grown in? But if you can't take out more than you put in, I don't beleive they'll be the ones to get/afford any real benefit.